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Help, Battrery explosion


Nick D

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32 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

If carrying on with the others, try to keep an eye on whether the casing of any are getting hot, or whether they are expelling a strong smell - in either of those cases, I would take those ones out of the equation as well.

The best time to check is some time after the batteries have been on charge. Good batteries will be cool: a faulty one will be noticeably warm, and the cells will be bubbling. You can often hear the bubbling. If, when you look in the cells, five are bubbling and one isn't then that's pretty clear proof of a shorted cell. Any battery with a shorted cell should be disconnected from the bank as soon as possible. (The energy warming in up is coming from discharging the other, good, batteries in the bank.) Since the bubbling is hydrogen gas, wear eye protection, especially whilst disconnecting. A stray spark then could ignite the hydrogen.

 

MP.

 

 

 

Edited by MoominPapa
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Hi all, thanks for your very swift replies this morning when this incident happened and in particular for the advice about baking soda/bicarbonate of soda.  The other half was dispatched to Sainsbury's local whilst I attempted to fix the problem.  As someone suggested, I disconnected the faulty battery but couldn't manage to get the old one out as it had disintegrated so badly and the odd spark was flying about!  I tried the engineers suggested but they were either unavailable or I just couldn't get through so in the end contacted RCR who dealt with it through their contracting arm as it's not covered apparently under the normal silver rescue plan.  The engineer took out the offending battery and connected up the others so we have domestic power again.  He said that this is quite unusual and difficult, if not impossible to predict.

Fortunately the adjacent batteries were not damaged so now another question if you don't mind....

the boat is two years old and we have had it for ten months.  It has a set of five domestic batteries, but now down to four.  We spend most of the time off grid on extended cruising (not liveaboards) and don't have solar. Until now, we have had sufficient power from the batteries for our needs and only occasionally have had to run the engine in the morning.  If you were me, would you replace the missing battery, or wait until the other four need replacing given that they are not yet two years old?

thnaks for your continuing advice.

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If the batteries are flooded cell and have caps on them I would check water levels in all cells. If the inverter/charger is equalising the batteries regularly or at too high a voltage, this may have depleted the water in more than just the one battery and that was just the first one to go.

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You'll have to excuse my ignorance again.  The batteries are lead acid but don't have caps on each cell rather flat discs with a cross thread.  Is this flooded cell and can I check this type?

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5 hours ago, dor said:

i think that number was for Middlewich Narrowboats who she used to work through.  M N are now gone.  I have 07885 205137 for her.   If that doesn't work I know someone who has phoned her recently so I could contact them for a new number if needed.

The last contact I read was Orchard Marina at Anderton, but the OP doesnt need an electrician specifically a boat yard should be able to sort it. We are at Lymm at the movement where is the OP

1 hour ago, Nick D said:

Hi all, thanks for your very swift replies this morning when this incident happened and in particular for the advice about baking soda/bicarbonate of soda.  The other half was dispatched to Sainsbury's local whilst I attempted to fix the problem.  As someone suggested, I disconnected the faulty battery but couldn't manage to get the old one out as it had disintegrated so badly and the odd spark was flying about!  I tried the engineers suggested but they were either unavailable or I just couldn't get through so in the end contacted RCR who dealt with it through their contracting arm as it's not covered apparently under the normal silver rescue plan.  The engineer took out the offending battery and connected up the others so we have domestic power again.  He said that this is quite unusual and difficult, if not impossible to predict.

Fortunately the adjacent batteries were not damaged so now another question if you don't mind....

the boat is two years old and we have had it for ten months.  It has a set of five domestic batteries, but now down to four.  We spend most of the time off grid on extended cruising (not liveaboards) and don't have solar. Until now, we have had sufficient power from the batteries for our needs and only occasionally have had to run the engine in the morning.  If you were me, would you replace the missing battery, or wait until the other four need replacing given that they are not yet two years old?

thnaks for your continuing advice.

How do you monitor the state of charge of your batteries?

 

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Glad you sorted the emergency. RCR are good at sorting problems even if they do charge you for domestic battery stuff!

If I spill battery acid, I would not wash with water as all that will do is produce a whole lot of dilute sulphuric acid which will soak into all the rust  in the bilge area and make it more difficult to get out. The acid is not immediately going to dissolve the boat as in the film Aliens. It will take weeks to eat its way through. Best practice is to flood it with Bicarb solution and then wash that away with lots of water. I would make up a 5 litre container of as strong bicarb solution as possible and try and get that into as many nooks and crevices as possible. A squirty bottle is a good way to deliver it but not sure how this can be accomplished if you have 4 or 5 batteries inaccessible as per the OPs pic - and like the ones on our boat!!!- Let that soak in for an hour then hose out with plain water.

I would hope if it happened to me I would be able to get bicarb on it within 8 hours. This thread tells me we should have some on board.

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36 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

The last contact I read was Orchard Marina at Anderton, but the OP doesnt need an electrician specifically a boat yard should be able to sort it. We are at Lymm at the movement where is the OP

How do you monitor the state of charge of your batteries?

 

I have a volt meter on my switch panel and occasionally the inverter beeps and I switch it off or run the engine.  Is there anything else I should be doing?

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The odd spark is flying about? Why if its coz your live is touching something isolate it.

however gassing batteries and the odd spark may have been the cause, i would at least measure the on charge voltage of your alternator, if its bunging out over 14.7 volts or so you may have boiled your batteries and it will happen again...

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1 hour ago, Nick D said:

the boat is two years old and we have had it for ten months.  It has a set of five domestic batteries, but now down to four.  We spend most of the time off grid on extended cruising (not liveaboards) and don't have solar. Until now, we have had sufficient power from the batteries for our needs and only occasionally have had to run the engine in the morning.  If you were me, would you replace the missing battery, or wait until the other four need replacing given that they are not yet two years old?

 

Ok, you dont have any solar, you are off grid most of the time and only occasionally have to run  the engine in  the morning. It sounds like you are seriously undercharging your batteries.

 

21 minutes ago, Nick D said:

I have a volt meter on my switch panel and occasionally the inverter beeps and I switch it off or run the engine.  Is there anything else I should be doing?

If your inverter is beeping (I assume low voltage) then your batteries must be quite stressed.

As someone who is off grid most of the time, you need a battery monitor. This will measure voltage of your domestic bank, current in or out and a amp hour counter. This is all you need to monitor your batteries which you obviously are not doing at the moment. With no solar and only occasionally running the engine in the morning, it is likely that your batteries are heavily sulphated and likely that has lead to failure - although we dont know much about your energy useage. Suggest you invest in battery monitor before you buy new batteries.

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Ok, so I need to get a multimeter then, or will this meter on my control panel tell me the same info?

re the sparks, I perhaps should have been clearer. This only happened when I was undoing and trying to reconnect the batteries after disconnecting the blown one.  They don't spark normally!

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For future reference, washing soda(soda crystals) is better than bicarbonate of soda.  It neutralises better, is cheaper and comes in bigger packs. It also is an effective degreaser.  Find it with washing powder etc. in your supermarket.

 

N

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4 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Ok, you dont have any solar, you are off grid most of the time and only occasionally have to run  the engine in  the morning. It sounds like you are seriously undercharging your batteries.

 

If your inverter is beeping (I assume low voltage) then your batteries must be quite stressed.

As someone who is off grid most of the time, you need a battery monitor. This will measure voltage of your domestic bank, current in or out and a amp hour counter. This is all you need to monitor your batteries which you obviously are not doing at the moment. With no solar and only occasionally running the engine in the morning, it is likely that your batteries are heavily sulphated and likely that has lead to failure - although we dont know much about your energy useage. Suggest you invest in battery monitor before you buy new batteries.

I have this meter on my control panel.  Does this do the same job?

we normally Cruise for about 4/5 hours per day and in the Erving watch tv and usual stuff but no hairdryers or anything with heavy usage.  What sort of battery monitor should I get?

image.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Nick D said:

Ok, so I need to get a multimeter then, or will this meter on my control panel tell me the same info?

re the sparks, I perhaps should have been clearer. This only happened when I was undoing and trying to reconnect the batteries after disconnecting the blown one.  They don't spark normally!

Were they gentle little fizzy dull sparks or big arcing flashes. If the gentle fizzy ones you may not have switched off the isolator switch beforehand and if something was still switched on in the boat, like just one light or 12v radio would produce the little fizzy dull sparks.

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12 minutes ago, Nick D said:

Ok, so I need to get a multimeter then, or will this meter on my control panel tell me the same info?

 

 

 If you are living off grid then you need a battery monitor. I have the Victron BMV. The NASA battery monitor is one of the cheapest. You should be able to fit one yourself. I did!!!

The meter on your control panel is useless to measure voltage accurately. It is ok to look at it to see if your alternator is charging, but not by how much.

Your 4-5 hours per day is probably giving your batteries a good charge but if you have a few days off then getting the charge back up to full could be difficult.

 

Edited by Dr Bob
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Just now, bizzard said:

Were they gentle little fizzy dull sparks or big arcing flashes. If the gentle fizzy ones you may not have switched off the isolator switch beforehand and if something was still switched on in the boat, like just one light or 12v radio would produce the little fizzy dull sparks.

Yes, they were gentle fizzy dull sparks, and yes I think you are right. I was in a bit of a panic at the time

1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

 If you are living off grid then you need a battery monitor. I have the Victron BMV. The NASA battery monitor is one of the cheapest. You should be able to fit one yourself. I did!!!

The meter on your control panel is useless to measure voltage accurately. It is ok to look at it to see if your alternator is charging, but not by how much.

 

Thanks. It's on my list.

From what I have said about our charging/usage, does it sound like I'm doing something wrong?

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That voltmeter is only for a rough guide to prove of charging. You need a much more sensitive and well graduated one to check battery state of charge and whatnot. Digital.

Edited by bizzard
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4 minutes ago, Nick D said:

Yes, they were gentle fizzy dull sparks, and yes I think you are right. I was in a bit of a panic at the time

Thanks. It's on my list.

From what I have said about our charging/usage, does it sound like I'm doing something wrong?

You need to make sure your battery if fully charged at least each week. You may or may not be doing that with your 4-5hours per day.

Have a look at a thread that 'wotever' posted earlier this year.

 

This is good reading and will give you a basis to work from. You will see from the thread that a battery monitor is a must to see when you are fully charged (based on tail current) and how much charging is needed.  Have a good read of wotevers first post on the thread and then come back and ask some more questions. I'm sure @WotEver will be around to answer them.:)

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1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

The acid is not immediately going to dissolve the boat as in the film Aliens. It will take weeks to eat its way through.

 

Ah now that's useful to know Dr Bobski.

Was it you who calculated the volume of steel a litre of battery acid will dissolve ages ago in a similar thread? 

If not could you have a stab at it please? I have no eye deer how to go about it.

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