Diesel fumes

[Robbo]

Just now, peterboat said:

Coal and oil are rapidly disappearing as power stations here biomass is the new coal, The wind seems to blow here all year around it must do as those blades keep on spinning.

Oh great so we go from burning fuel to burning fuel.  Biomass isn't sustainable for the amount of energy we will require so it will just equal deforestation.   Nuclear is one of the cleanest solutions around and is really the only solution to reduce green house gases as well as provide are needs for energy in the future.

[nb Innisfree]

8 hours ago, peterboat said:

Pardon a litre of LPG is the same size as a litre of petrol but half the weight

I was thinking bulky tank. 

[nb Innisfree]

18 minutes ago, Robbo said:

What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?  Oh yes we use gas and coal!  That’s why the oil industry is against Nuclear Power.

Each house could have a battery to take up the slack, Tesla supply them already provided it is going to connect to the grid. 

[Dr Bob]

2 hours ago, Robbo said:

LPG isn’t as energy dense as petrol tho, so you need more of it for the same range.  You also need a more robust tank to hold it.

Hydrogen/fuel cell makes more sense for electric cars rather than battery technology.

You need almost twice as much propane by volume as petrol because of the density difference.

Once  the chemists sort out how to split water into hydrogen and oxygen economically then we will be all fine. Only a mater of time. Millions and millions of years at the current rate. 

[Robbo]

8 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Each house could have a battery to take up the slack, Tesla supply them already provided it is going to connect to the grid. 

And who is going to buy and maintain the battery?  The consumer?  Why would that benefit the consumer if we can already get 24/7 energy from the grid?   The energy company?  Why would they want to maintain batteries on multiple sites, they already go installing smart meters so they don't have to visit you.   There is also the issue of the the amount of materials for the battery technology as they are not built from the most abundant materials!    They say you would need around 7 weeks of storage if you went just used Wind and Solar.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robbo

[cuthound]

26 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

Hydrogen is a waste of time proven by the fact that makers arnt taking it up, it is the worst of all solutions and requires a lot of energy to make, has a poor range as is very complex plus it takes up to much room. Electic trucks are a reality already without subsidies. We will have 2 new nuclear power stations but wind is the way forward, biomass is just a pack of lies. Mick Longford has six turbines on his land they spin constantly unless turned off because not needed can you turn any other power station off like that?

Whilst we are chatting electric vehicles are constantly being improved and promoted an electric road is being built in Sweden and the tech gets ever better, IC cars are been forgotten about by the clever makers as they know its the past, and hydrogen has been quietly buried as it was never viable at all.

As for LPG I did it for a living and a dedicated range extender would have a high compression engine which would mean no loss of power or efficiency and the tank could be shaped to whatever you wanted it to be problem solved

Toyota and BMW don't think hydrogen powered cars are a waste of time. 

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/new-mirai/meet-mirai.json#1

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/bmw-i8-hydrogen/

Both companies, and no doubt others, continue to work on cells because hydrogen is readily available and lithium and other rare materials required  for batteries are scarce and expensive to mine.

Battery powered EV's are a stepping stone towards fuel cell powered vehicles in my opinion.

I have managed projects to install wind turbines and am fully aware of their limitations. If there wasn't a subsidy available, no one would be installing them commercially.

[nb Innisfree]

32 minutes ago, Robbo said:

And who is going to buy and maintain the battery?  The consumer?  Why would that benefit the consumer if we can already get 24/7 energy from the grid?   The energy company?  Why would they want to maintain batteries on multiple sites, they already go installing smart meters so they don't have to visit you.   There is also the issue of the the amount of materials for the battery technology as they are not built from the most abundant materials!    They say you would need around 7 weeks of storage if you went just used Wind and Solar.

Each house would already have a battery in an EV plugged into the grid and charging, when demand is high power from the cars goes back into the grid, computers could monitor it all and do the switching. 

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Each house would already have a battery in an EV plugged into the grid and charging, when demand is high power from the cars goes back into the grid, computers could monitor it all and do the switching. 

Oh great so when I want to use my car in the morning it's flat because I wanted some dinner and it wasn't windy enough.

[MtB]

16 hours ago, bizzard said:

The bigger the car, the smaller the brain. 

 

Not sure about that, but certainly the bigger the car, then more hubris by the driver. 

Same tends to happen with boats. 

[nb Innisfree]

11 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Oh great so when I want to use my car in the morning it's flat because I wanted some dinner and it wasn't windy enough.

No, computers would make sure there was enough charge to get you to work or wherever you were going. The technology is already exists to make it possible, it's a question of juggling resources, the national grid already juggles to even out demand, just needs extending. 

[WotEver]

22 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

No, computers would make sure there was enough charge to get you to work or wherever you were going

How would the computer know where I might decide to go in the morning? I might have to make an emergency long distance trip, so I need the battery full, not half-depleted because I made some custard. 

[Dr Bob]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

How would the computer know where I might decide to go in the morning? I might have to make an emergency long distance trip, so I need the battery full, not half-depleted because I made some custard. 

Siiiiiiimple. Use cream instead of custard.

[nb Innisfree]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

How would the compu ter know where I might decide to go in the morning? I might have to make an emergency long distance trip, so I need the battery full, not half-depleted because I made some custard. 

If a long trip is expected you would override the computer, emergencies could be catered for with a quick battery change same as you do now by refuelling if your petrol tank is low, but most people would be making their usual short commute. 

Maybe custard could be harnessed in the future. 

[Robbo]

46 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

No, computers would make sure there was enough charge to get you to work or wherever you were going. The technology is already exists to make it possible, it's a question of juggling resources, the national grid already juggles to even out demand, just needs extending. 

So on a calm night where does the power come from to make my and everyone's dinner?   How does a computer know I want to drive a longer distance tomorrow compared to last week?   If you can override so I can have a fully charged car, most people will do so as they don't want to be inconvenienced or have been bitten before by the smart technology you quote so they just override it.    Bit like when we had a petrol shortage, they wouldn't have been a shortage if we just kept on buying at the normal rate, but as soon as we knew their was a shortage we filled up causing the shortage!

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robbo

[bizzard]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not sure about that, but certainly the bigger the car, then more hubris by the driver. 

Same tends to happen with boats. 

Hubrisics are all Greek to me.  Regarding wimins driving huge Chelsea tractors about. I've cross examined quite a few wimins about the subject and whether they were hubristic or not, they nearly all say. I don't want one of those brutes, or I wish I didn't have one or I wouldn't go near one. Most declared that all they wanted is a nice small simple car that they can maneuver and park easily, the more hubristic ones said they wouldn't mind a small sports car. But in the main the wimins that drive the big brutes said that it wasn't their choice of vehicle at all, but him indoors wanted one and insisted on it, as he paid for it we don't have much say in the matter.

[GUMPY]

15 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

No vrs skoda fabia no dpf  just a small car and big motor. I leave my baseball cap in australia though i bought it for the economy

Indeed for some reason I thought Octavia. Fabia Vrs were not as described by Skoda the later diesel ones were not 130hp but 150! Well at least that's what my unmolested one produced on the rolling road.

[X Alan W]

On 4/16/2018 at 10:54, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The soot 'particles' from my old Skandia hot bulb semi-diesel could be up to about 3/4" across. 

Don't think I ever breathed any in though...

 

 

Those Semi Diesel's could make some Quality soot balls I always hoped the 'Seffle' din't catch the exhaust on fire while in a tunnel  Now that would have made breathing difficult & dodging the 1/2" & bigger red hot soot balls would have been fun Never did happen though "Phew"

[IanD]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

Toyota and BMW don't think hydrogen powered cars are a waste of time. 

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/new-mirai/meet-mirai.json#1

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/bmw-i8-hydrogen/

Both companies, and no doubt others, continue to work on cells because hydrogen is readily available and lithium and other rare materials required  for batteries are scarce and expensive to mine.

Battery powered EV's are a stepping stone towards fuel cell powered vehicles in my opinion.

I have managed projects to install wind turbines and am fully aware of their limitations. If there wasn't a subsidy available, no one would be installing them commercially.

Everyone except Toyota and BMW -- who have spent a lot of money on them and won't admit they're wrong -- realises that hydrogen/fuel cells are a non-starter because the overall efficiency from the power source is appalling (far worse than BEV) due to so many losses in the overall energy chain (which no amount of clever hand-waving will fix), and hydrogen storage is a nightmare. If we want to move to centralised power generation for transport -- preferably from renewable sources, or failing that nuclear -- then the first priority is to use this as efficiently as possible to minimise the amount of generation capacity needed, and hydrogen fails massively at this -- and the failure is due to fundamental laws of chemistry/physics/thermodynamics, not something that can be fixed by a new invention.

The statement about capacity problems when everyone arrives home and plugs in would be true, except this isn't how it will work when there are lots of electric cars. Pricing will be set to rise at peak demand periods and fall when there's excess capacity (e.g. in the middle of the night), you'll arrive home and plug in your car and tell it (or the smart meter) that you want it to be changed by the next morning at the lowest cost, and exactly when this is done overnight will be negotiated automatically. If your car is fully charged and you don't need it to be (e.g. at work) you can even sell the excess back to the grid when power is expensive, to help even out power demand peaks. Done this way -- and it will be, because it's the only way that makes economic sense -- there's already enough spare grid capacity in the UK to charge millions of BEV cheaply every night with no problem. If you want to charge during the day it'll be more expensive, but still a lot cheaper than petrol/diesel. When the number of BEV rises to tens of millions some extra grid and distribution capacity will be needed, but this is a *long* way in the future.

This doesn't solve the big problem with renewables about where the power comes from when generation peaks (e.g. from solar/wind) don't line up with demand peaks, and either huge amounts of energy storage (*really* huge amounts, not just some batteries or pumped storage) or continuously available baseline power from nuclear are needed to fill in the gaps. But this is the same problem as renewables face in general, there's nothing special about BEV in this respect.

Edited April 17, 2018 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

We had a pair of boats pass on the T&M yesterday heading south, the steerer was wearing a black face mask like you see everyone in China wearing. The butty's name was Thule

[roland elsdon]

6 hours ago, Loddon said:

Indeed for some reason I thought Octavia. Fabia Vrs were not as described by Skoda the later diesel ones were not 130hp but 150! Well at least that's what my unmolested one produced on the rolling road.

That would explain a lot its a 2007 and goes like fire, first time mrs s  used it she said whats with the lights... err traction control, stability control and overboost all at the same time that means slow down...Got out of a fiat 500 hire car yesterday and dug it out of its winter slumber 7 months. Slapped on the tax and fired up once it was warm gave it the beans wheelspin in 3rd seems to have enjoyed the rest. Contrast today 2.75 mph stately progress down the braunston pound dredging out the winter mud.

[Robbo]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

This doesn't solve the big problem with renewables about where the power comes from when generation peaks (e.g. from solar/wind) don't line up with demand peaks, and either huge amounts of energy storage (*really* huge amounts, not just some batteries or pumped storage) or continuously available baseline power from nuclear are needed to fill in the gaps. But this is the same problem as renewables face in general, there's nothing special about BEV in this respect.

There is no point in Nuclear filling in the gaps as the fuel is so abundant and cheap they are best run at max capacity.   If you need something to fill wind and solar gaps then Nuclear isn’t really it.  One of the reasons why the Oil companies get behind wind and solar and don’t like Nuclear is because those gaps are been filled by Gas.  Nuclear is also cleaner than solar, so why would you build Nuclear to fill the gaps when it’s cleaner than the source you are filling for!

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robbo

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

That would explain a lot its a 2007 and goes like fire, first time mrs s  used it she said whats with the lights... err traction control, stability control and overboost all at the same time that means slow down...Got out of a fiat 500 hire car yesterday and dug it out of its winter slumber 7 months. Slapped on the tax and fired up once it was warm gave it the beans wheelspin in 3rd seems to have enjoyed the rest. Contrast today 2.75 mph stately progress down the braunston pound dredging out the winter mud.

If you like chucking it around fit a Whiteline rear anti roll bar, stops any body roll and enables the car to corner much faster. 

I will say that the Fabia diesel Vrs is possibly the most fun car I have had I could be tempted again

[peterboat]

19 hours ago, Robbo said:

There is no point in Nuclear filling in the gaps as the fuel is so abundant and cheap they are best run at max capacity.   If you need something to fill wind and solar gaps then Nuclear isn’t really it.  One of the reasons why the Oil companies get behind wind and solar and don’t like Nuclear is because those gaps are been filled by Gas.  Nuclear is also cleaner than solar, so why would you build Nuclear to fill the gaps when it’s cleaner than the source you are filling for!

Tell that to all the dead people from the various nuclear disasters!! I was a radiation officer in the ARMY add on job but I would rather have a base of nuclear [as small as possible and wind/tidal etc  for the rest

On 4/17/2018 at 09:21, Dr Bob said:

You need almost twice as much propane by volume as petrol because of the density difference.

 

No you dont I have done over a  thousand LPG conversions most lose 10% economy cars with high compression ratios [V12 Jags] lose virtually nowt build an engine just for LPG and you can make it more economical than a petrol [its been done] so for a generator for an EV its the perfik fix clean and cheap and readily available

[Robbo]

14 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Tell that to all the dead people from the various nuclear disasters!! I was a radiation officer in the ARMY add on job but I would rather have a base of nuclear [as small as possible and wind/tidal etc  for the rest

Deaths per trillion kWhr...

Biomass - 24,000

Hydro (global) - 1,400

Solar - 440

Wind - 150

Nuclear (Global); 90  (includes Chernobyl and Fukushima)

 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

Deaths per trillion kWhr...

Biomass - 24,000

Hydro (global) - 1,400

Solar - 440

Wind - 150

Nuclear (Global); 90  (includes Chernobyl and Fukushima)

 

Thats only the ones they know about directly, the radiation spread far and wide Scotland had it, how many case of cancer were caused by it? If Russian Spetznats hadnt sacrificed their lives, the results would have been worldwide devastation if all the reactors on site had gone up!! You are taking a short term view to a long term problem  People have to take control and solar panels on all houses/buildings that are suitable would be the first step battey rbanks as others have said will also work powered by those solar panels. Its not the states problem to supply electric its yours, and the quicker people realise that the better