Diesel fumes

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

Petrol vs diesel pollution is not nearly as clear cut as politicians and environmentalists would have believe.

Nox production is related to combustion temperature, and the trend towards turbocharging for both diesel and engines increases the amount of Nox produced.

According to this article, some newer diesels produce less Nox than some newer smaller petrol engines.

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/diesel-tax-anger-new-models-beat-petrol-nox-pollution-tests/

Fine particles are not only produced by using diesel engines in cars. They are also produced from tyres, brakes and clutches as they wear.

Even using electric vehicles isn't as clean as it first appears. More CO2 will be produced by power stations to meet the increased electrical consumption and mining and producing the rare metals required for batteries and electric motors consumes huge amounts of energy and creates local pollution.

What is really needed is impartial cost benefit analysis, similar to how NICE asseses the cost effectiveness of drugs, but that is too complicated for politicians and journalists. 

Or will we continue our rush for clean energy? We are putting up wind turbines like planting trees! and a lot of them are close to motorways where it will be needed. At sea wind turbines are on the increase with floating ones at one site due any day and if I read right they are the biggest yet! On another plus side Lithium can be mined here as well so with luck batteries for vehicles will be made and used here rather than importing the oil for ICEs. Like it or not the wheel has turned and its not looking good for diesel or petrol. What I cant understand is why range extenders [electric cars with a generator] dont use LPG to power them? as that would clean them up nicely and allow them to operate in towns and cities

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

An all-electric F1?

Formula E race around street circuits. The races last 50 mins. and they swap cars half way through. They're a long way off matching the performance/endurance of a petrol powered car.

[bizzard]

44 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Or will we continue our rush for clean energy? We are putting up wind turbines like planting trees! and a lot of them are close to motorways where it will be needed. At sea wind turbines are on the increase with floating ones at one site due any day and if I read right they are the biggest yet! On another plus side Lithium can be mined here as well so with luck batteries for vehicles will be made and used here rather than importing the oil for ICEs. Like it or not the wheel has turned and its not looking good for diesel or petrol. What I cant understand is why range extenders [electric cars with a generator] dont use LPG to power them? as that would clean them up nicely and allow them to operate in towns and cities

Or methane gas. Think of all the sewage going to waste. 1 full Porta-Pottie cassette would propel a car along for a considerable distance, depending on the users diet. A Porta-Pottie could even be used as the drivers seat to do its converting whilst going along. This could give the car an unlimited mileage, perhaps just stopping occasionally to top up at drive through burger and pizza huts.  It wouldn't be MPG anymore, but MPT instead.  There would be a big run on in car air fresheners and toilet rolls.  There would be a sudden healthy rise in vegetarians too, as fruit and veg would generates more methane. Eggs would be avoided at all cost for fear of constipatiion which would severely shorten the cars duration and even bring it to a standstill in the piddle of nowhere.

Edited April 16, 2018 by bizzard

[Flyboy]

Anyone fancy flying across the Atlantic in a battery powered jumbo jet ?

[roland elsdon]

No good for trendies with composting toilets

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

  Tesla have thrown down the challenge by introducing powerful long range cars  

Had one pass me (not difficult) Sunday on the M6

[bizzard]

9 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Anyone fancy flying across the Atlantic in a battery powered jumbo jet ?

They're flying by wire now, that's the start of it.

[nb Innisfree]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

What I cant understand is why range extenders [electric cars with a generator] dont use LPG to power them? as that would clean them up nicely and allow them to operate in towns and cities

Range extenders with small petrol tanks take up valuable space, LPG tank would be worse. 

[nb Innisfree]

16 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Formula E race around street circuits. The races last 50 mins. and they swap cars half way through. They're a long way off matching the performance/endurance of a petrol powered car.

No problem performance wise with electric, Tesla roadster matches F1 already. Quick change batts at pit stops would be interesting. 

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Had one pass me (not difficult) Sunday on the M6

One rocketed silently away from me on the M3 recently, left me for dead in my C class Merc. Very impressive. 

[bizzard]

55 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Or methane gas. Think of all the sewage going to waste. 1 full Porta-Pottie cassette would propel a car along for a considerable distance, depending on the users diet. A Porta-Pottie could even be used as the drivers seat to do its converting whilst going along. This could give the car an unlimited mileage, perhaps just stopping occasionally to top up at drive through burger and pizza huts.  It wouldn't be MPG anymore, but MPT instead.  There would be a big run on in car air fresheners and toilet rolls.  There would be a sudden healthy rise in vegetarians too, as fruit and veg would generates more methane. Eggs would be avoided at all cost for fear of constipatiion which would severely shorten the cars duration and even bring it to a standstill in the piddle of nowhere.

Broken down due to constipation, ''rings the RAC''.  Can you help please I've broken down in Bognor?  RAC, What's do you think is the trouble member..  Member;-  Egg n chips, Constipation.  RAC;- Ok, ok don't panic, I'll soon havie you running again. I'll be there as soon as poss with liquid paraffin and perform a roadside enema.  Member;-- Hurry!!! gurgle hurry!!!!

Edited April 16, 2018 by bizzard

[cereal tiller]

23 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They're flying by wire now, that's the start of it.

Do they use a Biggish Reel of Wire?

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

Do they use a Biggish Reel of Wire?

Huge.

[Flyboy]

19 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Broken down due to constipation, ''rings the RAC''.  Can you help please I've broken down in Bognor?  RAC, What's do you think is the trouble member..  Member;- Constipation.  RAC;- Ok, ok don't panic I'll be there as soon as poss with liquid paraffin and perform a roadside enema.  Member;-- Hurry!!! gurgle hurry!!!!

Yes, breaking down like that would be a real pain in the  *rse. Keep some Exlax handy in the glove box might be the answer.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 Maybe we will rent batteries and you will drive into the 'garage' and a robot will swap them over?

That technology exists for forklift trucks. 

The forklift trucks are robots too.

[bizzard]

7 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Yes, breaking down like that would be a real pain in the  *rse. Keep some Exlax handy in the glove box might be the answer.

And perhaps a little camping stove with Brussel sprouts ciontinually on the boil.

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Or methane gas. Think of all the sewage going to waste. 1 full Porta-Pottie cassette would propel a car along for a considerable distance, depending on the users diet. A Porta-Pottie could even be used as the drivers seat to do its converting whilst going along. This could give the car an unlimited mileage, perhaps just stopping occasionally to top up at drive through burger and pizza huts.  It wouldn't be MPG anymore, but MPT instead.  There would be a big run on in car air fresheners and toilet rolls.  There would be a sudden healthy rise in vegetarians too, as fruit and veg would generates more methane. Eggs would be avoided at all cost for fear of constipatiion which would severely shorten the cars duration and even bring it to a standstill in the piddle of nowhere.

This idea would be good on a building site for a dump truck.

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Range extenders with small petrol tanks take up valuable space, LPG tank would be worse. 

Pardon a litre of LPG is the same size as a litre of petrol but half the weight

[Robbo]

10 hours ago, peterboat said:

Or will we continue our rush for clean energy? We are putting up wind turbines like planting trees! and a lot of them are close to motorways where it will be needed. At sea wind turbines are on the increase with floating ones at one site due any day and if I read right they are the biggest yet! On another plus side Lithium can be mined here as well so with luck batteries for vehicles will be made and used here rather than importing the oil for ICEs. Like it or not the wheel has turned and its not looking good for diesel or petrol. What I cant understand is why range extenders [electric cars with a generator] dont use LPG to power them? as that would clean them up nicely and allow them to operate in towns and cities

Gas is one if the worst offenders for global warming (probably just as bad as coal) and lithium is only half the battery the other half is harder to come by.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robbo

[Robbo]

6 hours ago, peterboat said:

Pardon a litre of LPG is the same size as a litre of petrol but half the weight

LPG isn’t as energy dense as petrol tho, so you need more of it for the same range.  You also need a more robust tank to hold it.

Hydrogen/fuel cell makes more sense for electric cars rather than battery technology.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Robbo

[cuthound]

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

Or will we continue our rush for clean energy? We are putting up wind turbines like planting trees! and a lot of them are close to motorways where it will be needed. At sea wind turbines are on the increase with floating ones at one site due any day and if I read right they are the biggest yet! On another plus side Lithium can be mined here as well so with luck batteries for vehicles will be made and used here rather than importing the oil for ICEs. Like it or not the wheel has turned and its not looking good for diesel or petrol. What I cant understand is why range extenders [electric cars with a generator] dont use LPG to power them? as that would clean them up nicely and allow them to operate in towns and cities

Problem with wind and solar energy is that isn't there when you need it to be. For example a cold foggy November night.

Also wind turbines struggle to reach 50% of their badged output, even in off shore locations because that is too little or too much wind or the turbine is down for maintenance (this is acknowledged in the article). Inland locations are worse, typically 10-25% of badged output.

We need more clean power stations of the nuclear variety to produce power of cold, dark winter nights.

As for electric planes and trucks, what operator will give up 50% or more of payload to accommodate batteries unless the government subsidise it?

As others say hydrogen internal combustion or fuel cells are they way forward in the long term.

Edited April 17, 2018 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect

[X Alan W]

13 hours ago, jonesthenuke said:

I was going North to South, but at the back of a group of boats. the fog was quite thick.

If its worse the other way I'll be need to be getting a respirator ready.

 

Were the fans not on ?when they are operating they draw "clean" air in the north end draw it through & expel it the south end the tunnel keepers often space out if more than one boat & open the doors each time to let each boat out in theory the fans will suck the fumes back over s/n boats but suck N/S boats exhaust forward Theb ideal set up is going S/N #1 boatN/S the last boat in Do they still let you keep you SF stove going  in working days half dozen boats + 3  exhausts & 6 range chimneys used to make the air a bit thick + the parts of broken towpath timbers hadn't been removed & with the "pea souper in the tunnel it was difficult to see it they then painted yellow arrows on the arch to give you an idea as to were it was as a good amount was under water

[system 4-50]

The idea that nuclear power is clean is amusing. Just dirty that lasts thousands of years.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

LPG isn’t as energy dense as petrol tho, so you need more of it for the same range.  You also need a more robust tank to hold it.

Hydrogen/fuel cell makes more sense for electric cars rather than battery technology.

 

44 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Problem with wind and solar energy is that isn't there when you need it to be. For example a cold foggy November night.

Also wind turbines struggle to reach 50% of their badged output, even in off shore locations because that is too little or too much wind or the turbine is down for maintenance (this is acknowledged in the article). Inland locations are worse, typically 10-25% of badged output.

We need more clean power stations of the nuclear variety to produce power of cold, dark winter nights.

As for electric planes and trucks, what operator will give up 50% or more of payload to accommodate batteries unless the government subsidise it?

As others say hydrogen internal combustion or fuel cells are they way forward in the long term.

Hydrogen is a waste of time proven by the fact that makers arnt taking it up, it is the worst of all solutions and requires a lot of energy to make, has a poor range as is very complex plus it takes up to much room. Electic trucks are a reality already without subsidies. We will have 2 new nuclear power stations but wind is the way forward, biomass is just a pack of lies. Mick Longford has six turbines on his land they spin constantly unless turned off because not needed can you turn any other power station off like that?

Whilst we are chatting electric vehicles are constantly being improved and promoted an electric road is being built in Sweden and the tech gets ever better, IC cars are been forgotten about by the clever makers as they know its the past, and hydrogen has been quietly buried as it was never viable at all.

As for LPG I did it for a living and a dedicated range extender would have a high compression engine which would mean no loss of power or efficiency and the tank could be shaped to whatever you wanted it to be problem solved

Edited April 17, 2018 by peterboat

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

Hydrogen is a waste of time proven by the fact that makers arnt taking it up, it is the worst of all solutions and requires a lot of energy to make, has a poor range as is very complex plus it takes up to much room. Electic trucks are a reality already without subsidies. We will have 2 new nuclear power stations but wind is the way forward, biomass is just a pack of lies. Mick Longford has six turbines on his land they spin constantly unless turned off because not needed can you turn any other power station off like that?

Whilst we are chatting electric vehicles are constantly being improved and promoted an electric road is being built in Sweden and the tech gets ever better, ID cars are been forgotten about by the clever makers as they know its the past, and hydrogen has been quietly buried as it was never viable at all.

As for LPG I did it for a living and a dedicated range extender would have a high compression engine which would mean no loss of power or efficiency and the tank could be shaped to whatever you wanted it to be problem solved

What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?  Oh yes we use gas and coal!  That’s why the oil industry is against Nuclear Power.

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?  Oh yes we use gas and coal!  That’s why the oil industry is against Nuclear Power.

Coal and oil are rapidly disappearing as power stations here biomass is the new coal, The wind seems to blow here all year around it must do as those blades keep on spinning.