Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

Featured Posts

Hi All

Interested in views on this as we have the great Diesel discussions on cars at the moment. Canal dwellers spend lots of their time stood very close to a diesel exhaust. I'm not aware of the filtering (if any?) that they have such DPF's etc, so, is there an increased risk to those on canal boats of long term health effects from Diesel above those who drive cars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

Interested in views on this as we have the great Diesel discussions on cars at the moment. Canal dwellers spend lots of their time stood very close to a diesel exhaust. I'm not aware of the filtering (if any?) that they have such DPF's etc, so, is there an increased risk to those on canal boats of long term health effects from Diesel above those who drive cars?

I'm sure there is, and I'm sure there'll be legislation sooner or later. Previously, however, they used to get kicked by bloomin' great horses! Progress, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The theory is without dpf filters the lumps coming out are bigger and therefore don't cross into the bloodstream...besides solid fuel stoves belching out etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it could possibly be a genes thing  From1958/72 I stood behind a roof exit 5" dia semi diesel exhaust boating 12/14 hr days most days I'm now in my 81st year & don't appear any worse heath wise than folk of my age  that have not been subject to that amount of breathing in diesel fumes not by any means a proper test just my musings.

Edited by X Alan W

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

The theory is without dpf filters the lumps coming out are bigger and therefore don't cross into the bloodstream...besides solid fuel stoves belching out etc.  

so you think DPF filters make Diesel fumes worse?  interesting angle!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that DPFs remove the large particles but leave the small ones in the exhaust stream meaning there are fewer particles from an exhaust fitted with a DPF but those that are there are the more damaging ones.

I am sure older diesels ran with lower combustion temperatures that will would create less NOX production. I* suspect the lower speds also encouraged the formataion of larger soot particles.

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think that DPFs remove the large particles but leave the small ones in the exhaust stream meaning there are fewer particles from an exhaust fitted with a DPF but those that are there are the more damaging ones.

I am sure older diesels ran with lower combustion temperatures that will would create less NOX production. I* suspect the lower speds also encouraged the formataion of larger soot particles.

 

 

The soot 'particles' from my old Skandia hot bulb semi-diesel could be up to about 3/4" across. 

Don't think I ever breathed any in though...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a previous life selling commercial vehicles, I was very much aware of exhaust emissions and it's dangers but it didn't stop me having a vintage engine in one of my boats.   I fitted the longest exhaust stack possible  to get under bridges and did not have a splitter. Strong headwinds were sometimes unpleasant though.

Investigated having a tilting exhaust pipe, but sold the boat before getting it sorted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid fuel stoves are far more toxic than diesel exhaust. I think these will be banned a long time before diesel engines in boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about poor trainspotters then, who hang about stations. Mainline stations like Paddington and Kings X reek with diesel fumes, although not quite so bad these days as more and more electric trains come on line.  And there's bus spotters too that hang about bus stops and depots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Solid fuel stoves are far more toxic than diesel exhaust. I think these will be banned a long time before diesel engines in boats.

Quiet right. Try sitting in a lock on a windless day having just put a load of Supertherm on the fire.......and then there is all the beer.:P

We are all doomed.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think that DPFs remove the large particles but leave the small ones in the exhaust stream meaning there are fewer particles from an exhaust fitted with a DPF but those that are there are the more damaging ones.

I am sure older diesels ran with lower combustion temperatures that will would create less NOX production. I* suspect the lower speds also encouraged the formataion of larger soot particles.

 

Nearly right Tony the DPF traps the PMs and when it has reached a certain temp and the engine is above a certain RPM it burns the particulates to make smaller ones. If its a forced regeneration of the DPF [because its failing, doing to much town driving or maybe even poor diesel] it will add diesel to the mix to increase the temperature to clean itself out. Now the normal regen is done above 50 MPH which normally means its out of town, a forced regen can happen at lower speeds because the engine is desperate to breath so it can happen in towns sometimes. A DPF moves pollution normally from towns to the countryside, and does as others have said, create smaller PMs which can pass from the lungs into the bloodstream killing people!! You are on the button for older IDI engines and modern DIs, in boats as they rev slower and run cooler NOX isnt formed as much in the combustion process.

I can see an issue coming up shortly with all the high pollution zones where my boat is in a high pollution zone how long before the council is forced to do something about us?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Nearly right Tony the DPF traps the PMs and when it has reached a certain temp and the engine is above a certain RPM it burns the particulates to make smaller ones. If its a forced regeneration of the DPF [because its failing, doing to much town driving or maybe even poor diesel] it will add diesel to the mix to increase the temperature to clean itself out. Now the normal regen is done above 50 MPH which normally means its out of town, a forced regen can happen at lower speeds because the engine is desperate to breath so it can happen in towns sometimes. A DPF moves pollution normally from towns to the countryside, and does as others have said, create smaller PMs which can pass from the lungs into the bloodstream killing people!! You are on the button for older IDI engines and modern DIs, in boats as they rev slower and run cooler NOX isnt formed as much in the combustion process.

I can see an issue coming up shortly with all the high pollution zones where my boat is in a high pollution zone how long before the council is forced to do something about us?

For "High Pollution Zone", consider the longer canal tunnels. Our Gardner is OK in the open air, but following a group of boats through Harecastle tunnel whilst standing behind the exhaust of our own boat was more than enough to get me concerned about breathing diesel fumes.

I'll not be fitting a catalytic converter and a DPF to it though!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple solution for boats -

make all diesel powered boats have wet exhausts - all the nasty stuff gets mixed with water and poisons the water instead....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My skoda vrs is pre dpf and as clean and green as anything, on full turbo boost i never see anyone behind complaining. They want me to scrap a perfectly good low mileage car and replace it with a new one so a bunch of chelsea tractor owners in lunun can carry on poluting their overcrowded slum.,,

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The quest for higher power output from small engines to save weight and space, amazing power from high revving turbo charged diesel cars, seemed like progress at the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dredge, deepen, and widen the canals on the approach to tunnels, and increase the local speed limit.  Take the boat up to maximum velocity on the approach, cut the engine on entry, and coast through. Simple.  Must not touch the sides though.  (and point the ...... backwards.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

For "High Pollution Zone", consider the longer canal tunnels. Our Gardner is OK in the open air, but following a group of boats through Harecastle tunnel whilst standing behind the exhaust of our own boat was more than enough to get me concerned about breathing diesel fumes.

I'll not be fitting a catalytic converter and a DPF to it though!

 

If you were cruising South/North with a roof exhaust you would get the diesel treatment from your /others exhausts because of the ventilation fans Better the "tother" way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I thought it was a courier company. 

 

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Does DPF stand for 'differential particle fysics'?

Deadly putrid fumes I think:rolleyes:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Does DPF stand for 'differential particle fysics'?

I think it's to do with stopping rising damp in walls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Petrol vs diesel pollution is not nearly as clear cut as politicians and environmentalists would have believe.

Nox production is related to combustion temperature, and the trend towards turbocharging for both diesel and engines increases the amount of Nox produced.

According to this article, some newer diesels produce less Nox than some newer smaller petrol engines.

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/diesel-tax-anger-new-models-beat-petrol-nox-pollution-tests/

Fine particles are not only produced by using diesel engines in cars. They are also produced from tyres, brakes and clutches as they wear.

Even using electric vehicles isn't as clean as it first appears. More CO2 will be produced by power stations to meet the increased electrical consumption and mining and producing the rare metals required for batteries and electric motors consumes huge amounts of energy and creates local pollution.

What is really needed is impartial cost benefit analysis, similar to how NICE asseses the cost effectiveness of drugs, but that is too complicated for politicians and journalists. 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×