Rudder Load, boat turns right

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Almost right. You had to bend it in order to straighten it. You can’t bend something straight. 

Wrong - you can bend it bent and you can bend it straight. You cannot straighten metal (our skeg for instance) without bending it

[Boater Sam]

From my limited experience in mangling damaged rudders and skegs, if the boat runs right with a light hand on the tiller, the bottom bearing is over to the left of the centre. So I would say that the skeg is knocked or set over to the left a bit.

I don't want to join in the bend or straighten debate, but if the skeg is bent, straighten it.

If it is straight, then its not on the centre line of the hull.

[WotEver]

21 minutes ago, RLWP said:

You cannot straighten metal (our skeg for instance) without bending it

That bit’s right. The other bit was wrong though. You can’t bend something straight. It’s an oxymoron. 

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

You can bend something "to be" straight.

Yup. 

[RLWP]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That bit’s right. The other bit was wrong though. You can’t bend something straight. It’s an oxymoron. 

Ah well

[WotEver]

The honourable 4-50 had it right when he wrote...

 

[Graham and Jo]

Love the debate on bending for straightening, we haven't quite got into the use of a preposition at the end of a sentence but I live in hope.

 

So what do you think about the ideal balance of the back part to the front part of the rudder. That is 4 to 1 as originally built or 5 to 1 as is the current state?

Cheers Graham

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Graham and Jo said:

Love the debate on bending for straightening, we haven't quite got into the use of a preposition at the end of a sentence but I live in hope.

I’m of the opinion that, should the context so require it, a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with.

 

[RLWP]

 

3 minutes ago, Graham and Jo said:

Love the debate on bending for straightening, we haven't quite got into the use of a preposition at the end of a sentence but I live in hope.

 

So what do you think about the ideal balance of the back part to the front part of the rudder. That is 4 to 1 as originally built or 5 to 1 as is the current state?

Cheers Graham

I think your rudder/stock/skeg combination is bent to buggery, 'cos you have the same problems we did with an ex hire boat

Richard

[Graham and Jo]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’m of the opinion that, should the context so require it, a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with.

 

I belong to a religious order that bans the use of prepositions at the end of sentences and Rasberry Magnums.

Cheers Graham

6 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

I think your rudder/stock/skeg combination is bent to buggery, 'cos you have the same problems we did with an ex hire boat

Richard

You are probably right but I am in denial. Cheers Graham

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, Graham and Jo said:

You are probably right but I am in denial.

You just need someone to bend it straight...

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, Graham and Jo said:

Love the debate on bending for straightening, we haven't quite got into the use of a preposition at the end of a sentence but I live in hope.

 

So what do you think about the ideal balance of the back part to the front part of the rudder. That is 4 to 1 as originally built or 5 to 1 as is the current state?

Cheers Graham

I think what ever suits you and not get bogged down with numbers. If you like the weight stick with it,if its too heavy lob a bit off,you can always glue it on next time its out

[Graham and Jo]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think what ever suits you and not get bogged down with numbers. If you like the weight stick with it,if its too heavy lob a bit off,you can always glue it on next time its out

Wise words I think, we'll probably be involved in an argument as to what glue to use through. Cheers Graham

[Ray T]

I'm going round the bend trying to follow this thread. ?

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ray T

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, Graham and Jo said:

You are probably right but I am in denial. Cheers Graham

Option 1: Get your boat dry docked, dismantle the steering gear, measure and repair

Option 2: Get used to it

I can recommend option 2, we got used to it for 12 years until circumstances lead to it being fixed.

Richard

[Graham and Jo]

2 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Option 1: Get your boat dry docked, dismantle the steering gear, measure and repair

Option 2: Get used to it

I can recommend option 2, we got used to it for 12 years until circumstances lead to it being fixed.

Richard

I'll try option 2, when I crash into everyone at the top of Oldbury Locks I'll claim I was following your advice. Cheers Graham

[MtB]

4 hours ago, WotEver said:

I’m of the opinion that, should the context so require it, a preposition is a perfectly good word to end a sentence with.

 

 

When criticised for ending a sentence with a preposition, Winston Churchill replied, "This is the type of errant pedantry up with which, I will not put."

Can't help but agree with his Churchillness. 

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

When criticised for ending a sentence with a preposition, Winston Churchill replied, "This is the type of errant pedantry up with which, I will not put."

Can't help but agree with his Churchillness. 

Actually I completely agree. When I wrote that sentence (“end a sentence with”) it really grated. I was simply being mischievous. “With which to end a sentence” is SO much nicer   

[Iain_S]

16 hours ago, Graham and Jo said:

(snip)

So what do you think about the ideal balance of the back part to the front part of the rudder. That is 4 to 1 as originally built or 5 to 1 as is the current state?

Cheers Graham

The first time Kelpie was bottom blacked, we took a couple of inches off the front of the rudder. With an approximately 4 to 1 ratio, the steering was so light that when you let go of the tiller, it immediately went to full lock. Much improved now!

If the force needed to move the tiller is OK, I'd leave well alone

[Graham and Jo]

6 hours ago, Iain_S said:

The first time Kelpie was bottom blacked, we took a couple of inches off the front of the rudder. With an approximately 4 to 1 ratio, the steering was so light that when you let go of the tiller, it immediately went to full lock. Much improved now!

If the force needed to move the tiller is OK, I'd leave well alone

I think the current load is too high, I ought to measure it really. If you let go of the tiller now it goes immediately fully to the left even if you start with some right tiller on. 

Looking at the wash there is a major swirl to the right where the bit with the hole on sticks up. With the old, shorter rudder this swirl would have been behind it. I wonder if that is the cause of the off centre steering as everything else seems straight. 

I still come back to the thought it was fine with the old rudder even though it was a bit bent. The only difference is the length.

I will stick with it for a while and see if I get used to it.

Cheers Graham

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Graham and Jo said:

I think the current load is too high, I ought to measure it really. If you let go of the tiller now it goes immediately fully to the left even if you start with some right tiller on. 

Looking at the wash there is a major swirl to the right where the bit with the hole on sticks up. With the old, shorter rudder this swirl would have been behind it. I wonder if that is the cause of the off centre steering as everything else seems straight. 

I still come back to the thought it was fine with the old rudder even though it was a bit bent. The only difference is the length.

I will stick with it for a while and see if I get used to it.

Cheers Graham

The rudder shouldn't swing to one side if you let go of it. I don't think that is because its to heavy 

[NickF]

On 13/04/2018 at 15:03, Graham and Jo said:

 

It is an ex Alvechurch boat and the top bearing is a sloppy fit in the hull but it was when the boat steered well with the bent rudder! Steering from the other side would move the alignment of the rudder slightly to the left.

 

 

In all my years of hiring  (45 years) I have only twice had a boat with a real pull on the tiller to one side ..... both of them were from Alvechurch boats...... may be a coincidence... may be not ....

[Graham and Jo]

I fitted a trim tab to the rudder, precisely designed by using a bit of metal I happened to have and bent to an angle determined by a lump hammer. It works you can now let go of the tiller. Jo just made it round Napton Junction so it goes left ok. Find out about right shortly.

 

Cheers Graham