Petition for wide beam owners

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

At a (slight) tangent.

One of BWMLs 'conditions' is that to have a mooring the boat must have a C&RT licence, BSS and Insurance - no problem - except when we applied to take the Cat into BWML Hull they wanted to see  all of the 'above'.

Having explained that it was a sea-going vessel (unable to use C&RT waters) they realised how foolish they looked, and said, just ignore that condition of the T&Cs.

Considering the number of 'sea-going' boats, (including the Border Force North Sea patrol boat), in the marina it makes me wonder if they have all got C&RT licences ?

No they have not.

There are a couple of boats in there who moved from Goole to escape paying for the BSS and CRT licence for waters they never used. They occasionally head up to the pub at Rawcliffe. They did do that on day visitor licences. Not an option to them now 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

No they have not.

There are a couple of boats in there who moved from Goole to escape paying for the BSS and CRT licence for waters they never used. They occasionally head up to the pub at Rawcliffe. They did do that on day visitor licences. Not an option to them now 

Apart from those BWML employees who are actually working in the marinas, I think that the management are taken from the same mould as C&RT management - ie do not even know what a boat looks like.

[Naughty Cal]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Apart from those BWML employees who are actually working in the marinas, I think that the management are taken from the same mould as C&RT management - ie do not even know what a boat looks like.

Don't say that!

We were planning to come down to Hull for a few months later this year.

[carlt]

14 hours ago, Joe Bourke said:

what other minority group of boaters will be the target of their vitriol? Continuous cruisers ?

"First they came for the pram hoods..."

 

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, carlt said:

"First they came for the pram hoods..."

 

Ahh yes pram hoods!! How can any narrowboat owner advocate price increases for boats of a proper beam when they have a poxy pramhood that turns an already silly looking boat into a monstrosity!!

[Jerra]

41 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Not necessarily.

At what point will people realise that not all widebeam boats on CRT waters are fat narrowboats 

I am not sure of the point you are making.  I haven't said widebeams are all fat narrowboats.

[Jerra]

26 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

They did do that on day visitor licences. Not an option to them now 

OK playing devil's advocate a little but if a boat has to be checked for being safe to use CRT waters then surely they should have a BSSC or not be there, even on a "day ticket".  Otherwise where do you draw the line?  "OH he is OK he has only been without a BSSC for 6 weeks"

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, Jerra said:

OK playing devil's advocate a little but if a boat has to be checked for being safe to use CRT waters then surely they should have a BSSC or not be there, even on a "day ticket".  Otherwise where do you draw the line?  "OH he is OK he has only been without a BSSC for 6 weeks"

You didn't need a BSS for a short term visitors licence. The same as you don't for EA, Scottish Canals, Broads Authority etc. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I am not sure of the point you are making.  I haven't said widebeams are all fat narrowboats.

I believe the point is that my 36 foot long x 14 foot beam boat does not take up any more area than a 72 foot x 7 foot 'narrowboat'

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I believe the point is that my 36 foot long x 14 foot beam boat does not take up any more area than a 72 foot x 7 foot 'narrowboat'

No pontoon juggling required 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

You didn't need a BSS for a short term visitors licence. The same as you don't for EA, Scottish Canals, Broads Authority etc. 

 

I am aware of that!   The point I was making is if it is considered necessary to check boats on CRT waters for safety then it is illogical to say you can bring any old unsafe tub on as it is just for a day.

Before people's hackles rise I am not saying boats using the day licence are unsafe merely that they could be.

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I believe the point is that my 36 foot long x 14 foot beam boat does not take up any more area than a 72 foot x 7 foot 'narrowboat'

 

And by the argument of some in this thread, if you put your 36ft x 14ft cat in say the southern oxford, your licence fee should fall to zero because you'll have no access to ANY of the system. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman
Edit to get the size right!

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And by the argument of some in this thread, if you plonked your 36ft x 14ft cat in the southern oxford, your licence fee should fall to zero because you'll have no access to ANY of the system. 

 

 

That is not my argument at all (read my 1st post on the subject)

A 72 NB licence is £1020.20 pa

My 36 foot x 14 foot licence is currently £686.18

My 'new' licence fee when the 20% is added will be £823.40

I don't have a problem with either the limitations on travel or the cost - it will still be (approximately) 80% of an equivalent NB licence.

If you want to travel the system and get the cheapest possible licence get a canoe, otherwise you have to pay the going rate for whatever you choose.

 

Edit : By the way it is my Cruiser that is 14 foot beam, the Cat is 23 foot beam.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I believe the point is that my 36 foot long x 14 foot beam boat does not take up any more area than a 72 foot x 7 foot 'narrowboat'

I would have thought there were fewer 72 foot narrowboats  than there are widebeams.  Incidentally how much of the system can a 72 footer use?  I don't hear them saying they should have a lower price range as they don't access all the system.

Your argument incidentally to me underlines why pricing should be by area and a simple rectangle for the reason I give above.  I would suggest the majority of widebeams are longer than 36 foot.

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

I am aware of that!   The point I was making is if it is considered necessary to check boats on CRT waters for safety then it is illogical to say you can bring any old unsafe tub on as it is just for a day.

Before people's hackles rise I am not saying boats using the day licence are unsafe merely that they could be.

No it isn't  lots of boats that enter CRT waters for short periods are from waters where no BSS is required, coastal waters for example.

It would be unworkable to expect them to get a safety test for a day spent on CRT waters hence why most navigation authorities have a short period, usually up to a month where no BSS is required for visiting vessels.

[MtB]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

That is not my argument at all (read my 1st post on the subject)

 

 

I didn't say it was. I used your boat as an example top illustrate the invalidity of the argument put forward by those who complain their wide boats can't access the whole of the system.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Your argument incidentally to me underlines why pricing should be by area and a simple rectangle for the reason I give above.  I would suggest the majority of widebeams are longer than 36 foot.

And the majority will be around the 10 foot (I guess)

so (say) 60x 10 = 600 square feet, compared to a 60 x 7 = 420 square feet, and yet the licence increase is only 20% = Bargain

Edited April 12, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

17 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

No it isn't  lots of boats that enter CRT waters for short periods are from waters where no BSS is required, coastal waters for example.

It would be unworkable to expect them to get a safety test for a day spent on CRT waters hence why most navigation authorities have a short period, usually up to a month where no BSS is required for visiting vessels.

As I said illogical.  A boat permanently on CRT waters wouldn't be allowed (assuming they knew) a month without BSSC.

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And the majority will be around the 10 foot (I guess)

so (say) 60x 10 = 600 square feet, compared to a 60 x 7 = 420 square feet, and yet the licence increase is only 20% = Bargain

Why did you cut off my suggestion that payment should be by area?  It makes it look as if I was saying something I wasn't.

[Horace42]

Charging extra for wide boats will become a fact of life. It is only a question of how much? Current length for narrowboats, plus a % for being wide (over 7ft). Easy to apply.

Interestingly has anyone analysed the current length rates to see if the extra for a longer boat is a consistent %?

PS: I started this reply last night and only finished this morning - and didn't see the recent comments. But my basic question is the same - is there a consistent extra charge that can be applied to any boat.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Horace42
PS:

[Naughty Cal]

19 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As I said illogical.  A boat permanently on CRT waters wouldn't be allowed (assuming they knew) a month without BSSC.

Why did you cut off my suggestion that payment should be by area?  It makes it look as if I was saying something I wasn't.

It isn't illogical, it is working around a situation where boats which don't need a BSS for their home waters visit on a temporary basis waters that do.

Nothing illogical in that.

Your BSS could expire a month after your licence renewal and CRT won't chase you until your next licence renewal for proof of BSS. Depending on your insurance policy that could leave you uninsured as well.

[Jerra]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

It isn't illogical, it is working around a situation where boats which don't need a BSS for their home waters visit on a temporary basis waters that do.

Nothing illogical in that.

So it isn't illogical to say all boats have to have an up to date BSSC to obtain a licence but we will allow an unknown number to visit that we don't know are safe.

Sorry but I don't like your logic.

It also makes refusal to issue a licence because of no BSSC more than  a little silly and unfair when you are allowing boats access without one.   

(Before anybody buts in  I know a BSSC is a requirement which makes it even more illogical to say we will have a form of licence which doesn't require one.)

[peterboat]

My issue with the whole "consultation" was that it was geared to give them the result they wanted, and as Nigel has said CRT can do what they want anyway so they didnt have to waste any money at all.

My issue with the increase is as follows the way DVLA work is that all new cars would require the new higher/lower license the old cars remain the same, CRT should have employed the same system it would have been fairer because we would then have choice! What they have done is set themselves up as a little empire dictating to us what they want to do, what they have forgot is that they dont own that empire the country does they are just looking after it for us. I suspect this empire if it continues like it is will be very short lived.

[Naughty Cal]

6 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So it isn't illogical to say all boats have to have an up to date BSSC to obtain a licence but we will allow an unknown number to visit that we don't know are safe.

Sorry but I don't like your logic.

It also makes refusal to issue a licence because of no BSSC more than  a little silly and unfair when you are allowing boats access without one.   

(Before anybody buts in  I know a BSSC is a requirement which makes it even more illogical to say we will have a form of licence which doesn't require one.)

No it doesn't.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

(is this the five minute argument?)

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So it isn't illogical to say all boats have to have an up to date BSSC to obtain a licence but we will allow an unknown number to visit that we don't know are safe.

There is a safety declaration form that you have to fill in if you do not have a BSS certificate and want to visit CRT waters.