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Looking for parts and documentation for Stoves Vanette GG7000


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Well, our Stoves Vanette CG7000 is falling apart, and we can't afford to replace it. It was original equipment on the boat, which makes it 21 years old. A few months after we took possession in November 2016 we noticed that the oven wasn't cooking food in anywhere near the expected time. Investigation showed that the flame didn't get any higher regardless of the control knob setting, suggesting the thermostat had failed. We've learned to live with that - you just have to allow approximately 4x the stated cooking time because it seems stuck on low setting, which means planning two or more hours in advance if you want to cook a pie or something. :lol: Yesterday though, i had trouble keeping the grill alight, the flame died as soon as i released the knob. A bit of manipulation with the thermocouple suggests this is the fault because after a little bit of gentle pushing and poking i got the thing working again - but if it is disturbed the flame dies. I looked around the internet last year and could find little in the way of spare parts for this cooker, and the one oven thermostat i found was several hundred £. Does anybody know where parts for this model can still be sourced, and also of any documentation in the way of maintenance manuals anywhere around the Web?

EDIT: the relevant model is possibly a GG7000, because this is all i can find on the Web, which means the original fitters misprinted this in the boat manual.

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40 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I suspect you only need to replace the thermocouple, not the full thermostat assembly. Generic thermocouples should be available for little money.

ETA http://www.leisureshopdirect.com would appear to have oven and grill thermocouples in stock for £20 ish.

Probably the thermocouple for the grill, but are you saying that the symptoms i describe suggest the thermocouple for the oven as well? My understanding would be that it's the thermostat at fault here, since the oven fires up but doesn't reach full operating temperature. I've now found thermostats for the oven at about £140 and the thermocouples for both the oven and grill are in fact very cheap at around £10 on a different site, but it looks as though substantial dismantling of the oven is required and probably not something to do for someone with no training on gas appliances? At about £160 for thermostat and both thermocouples i would consider getting a skilled gas engineer to install at a later date, but money is too tight just now. And then, where do you begin and end, perhaps the oven burner assembly needs replacing too, and then it's getting on for about half the price of a new cooker.....

Edited by Froggy
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38 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The actual gas jets can get goo'd up too reducing the flame size which might not be big enough to satisfy a thermo couple, or for a thermostat to work properly.

Yes, that was my first thought too.  I had a similar problem on the hob burners recently. This was quickly rectified by cleaning out the burner nozzles with a wire brush and soapy water.  And best of all, it cost nothing! 

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1 hour ago, Rebotco said:

Yes, that was my first thought too.  I had a similar problem on the hob burners recently. This was quickly rectified by cleaning out the burner nozzles with a wire brush and soapy water.  And best of all, it cost nothing! 

Yes, those and I meant the actual gas jets too.

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5 hours ago, Rebotco said:

Yes, that was my first thought too.  I had a similar problem on the hob burners recently. This was quickly rectified by cleaning out the burner nozzles with a wire brush and soapy water.  And best of all, it cost nothing! 

 

3 hours ago, bizzard said:

Yes, those and I meant the actual gas jets too.

There was certainly plenty of gloop on the burner assembly at the back of the oven and we cleaned the holes as best we could with a toothbrush and soapy water in great anticipation of an improvement, but none was to be seen. I'm not sure where the gas jet is in relation to this, is it part of the thermostat housing? The flame seems to feed into the burner assembly from the left, which would indicate that the jet is there, but i don't think it's very accessible without dismantling.

I think with regard to the grill thermocouple though, the flame dies if this is moved a mere millimetre or two, which would suggest to me some sort of mechanical failure.

It would be great to get hold of a service manual for this model, just to get an idea of the work involved in replacing these parts.

Edited by Froggy
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7 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

There was certainly plenty of gloop on the burner assembly at the back of the oven and we cleaned the holes as best we could with a toothbrush and soapy water in great anticipation of an improvement, but none was to be seen. I'm not sure where the gas jet is in relation to this, is it part of the thermostat housing? The flame seems to feed into the burner assembly from the left, which would indicate that the jet is there, but i don't think it's very accessible without dismantling.

I think with regard to the grill thermocouple though, the flame dies if this is moved a mere millimetre or two, which would suggest to me some sort of mechanical failure.

It would be great to get hold of a service manual for this model, just to get an idea of the work involved in replacing these parts.

I'm not conversant with the Vanette but they're all similar. The burners should just lift out, may be held down with a spring clip or something. They should then just pull back an inch or so and lift  out, You can clean them properly then and poke the holes and empty out rust and muck. Having removed them the tiny gas jets will be revealed. I poke a tiny weeny watch makers drill bit in and out of them to clear them, also a wire brush bristle usually will do the job. The oven and grill burners are usually like this. The top ring burners and jets should be similar but might be simpler, like a hob the circular burners might just lift off revealing the jets sticking up in the middle. The jets will usually unscrew to remove them for cleaning but not always. Be careful and gentle if moving the thermo-couples.

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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

I'm not conversant with the Vanette but they're all similar. The burners should just lift out, may be held down with a spring clip or something. They should then just pull back an inch or so and lift  out, You can clean them properly then and poke the holes and empty out rust and muck. Having removed them the tiny gas jets will be revealed. I poke a tiny weeny watch makers drill bit in and out of them to clear them, also a wire brush bristle usually will do the job. The oven and grill burners are usually like this. The top ring burners and jets should be similar but might be simpler, like a hob the circular burners might just lift off revealing the jets sticking up in the middle. The jets will usually unscrew to remove them for cleaning but not always. Be careful and gentle if moving the thermo-couples.

You obviously know what you're talking about, Bizzard, but i don't fully understand. If the burner assembly can be lifted out, how does it connect to the gas supply pipe? Also, with regard to the thermocouple, why is it so important to be gentle with them? Again, i don't fully understand how these work; my guess would be that, at the burner end, the heat of the flame completes a circuit inside. This, however, would not explain why the grill thermocouple cuts the flame out if it is moved much further along the assembly just before it disappears through a hole in the cooker panel and on to the grill burner.

Again, with regard to thermostats, what is the most likely cause of a failure with these? Is it a mechanical  failure within the mechanism?

With regard to service manuals, no search on the Web has come up with anything better than this, which is at least a start:
https://www.leisurespares.co.uk/files/059042727_vanette_gg7000(0000i).pdf

Edited by Froggy
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6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

If the burner assembly can be lifted out, how does it connect to the gas supply pipe?

The gas pipe connects (via the control valve) to the jet. The burner sits on top of the jet. The gas comes out of the jet then through the holes in the burner. 

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

The gas pipe connects (via the control valve) to the jet. The burner sits on top of the jet. The gas comes out of the jet then through the holes in the burner. 

Ok, thanks, i'll have a closer look and see if i can remove it, this will certainly allow me to clean it properly and also get access to the jet. If all that fails then i guess it's down to the thermostat. I'm guessing that the thermostat and thermocouple are connected to the jet and shouldn't be removed without the necessary skills?

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5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

That PDF seems to be just an oven and grill unit only,  no top hob burners. Is that what you have ?

No, we also have a hob above these, but a different model number so it would have been supplied separately. The hob is fitted into the worktop counter directly above the oven/grill unit. The hob is at the moment working well. When we got the boat most of the knobs were a bit sticky with gunge so didn't spring up properly and lock in the off position, but a little bit of WD40, carefully applied, sorted this.

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55 minutes ago, WotEver said:

A thermocouple is usually dead easy to replace. A nut at the far end connects it to the valve and that’s it. 

Yes, but then what about the other end? It disappears into the body of the metal grill top panel (part 591 in the .pdf document). Shining a torch through the gap i can't see the far end of it to see where it connects. This looks inaccessible without removing the entire grill/oven unit out to gain access to the top of it. Have you any idea how this might have failed, when a slight sideways movement of the unit just before it enters the hole through the metal panel determines whether or not the flame remains lit when the control knob is released. It's almost as if it is making contact with something behind the panel. It certainly seems securely fixed at the burner end.

I guess i need a bit of a crash course in the mechanics of gas stoves!

Edited by Froggy
clarification re grill thermocouple
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9 minutes ago, Froggy said:

No, we also have a hob above these, but a different model number so it would have been supplied separately. The hob is fitted into the worktop counter directly above the oven/grill unit. The hob is at the moment working well. When we got the boat most of the knobs were a bit sticky with gunge so didn't spring up properly and lock in the off position, but a little bit of WD40, carefully applied, sorted this.

Ok. So the hob is a separate unit on its own.    The Vanette is just an oven and grill. Does the Vanette have electronic igniters ? If so its probably very similar to the PDF diagram. If so, you can see the jet nozzles sticking out of the oven and grill controls, the oven one has the thermostat on it. The burners in the exploded view fit over them. They seen to call the jets, injectors.

I think you need to pull the unit out to deal with it properly anyway.

Edited by bizzard
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1 minute ago, Froggy said:

a slight sideways movement of the unit just before it enters the hole through the panel towards the grill burners determines whether or not the flame remains lit when the control knob is released.

You’ll just be pushing it more into the flame. 

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1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Ok. So the hob is a separate unit on its own.    The Vanette is just an oven and grill. Does the Vanette have electronic igniters ? If so its probably very similar to the PDF diagram. If so, you can see the jet nozzles sticking out of the oven and grill controls, the oven one has the thermostat on it. The burners in the exploded view fit over them. They seen to call the jets, injectors.

No, interestingly enough the hob looks set up for electonic ignition but has to be lit be a taper or similar (and the boat manual implies that this was the procedure when originally fitted rather than something having subsequently failed). The oven and grill are lit likewise. This .pdf document is specific to the exact model we have (GG7000).

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

You’ll just be pushing it more into the flame. 

Ok, my bad, and i've now edited post #15 to avoid this confusion. The thermocouple is secure at the burner end and doesn't seem to move at all. However, the rod then extends several inches and disappears through a hole in the metal top panel of the grill (part 591 in the exploded diagram in the .pdf). It's at this point, a few inches away from the burner, that it disappears into the metal top panel through a small hole and then out of sight so that, even when shining a torch through a gap, you can't see the far end, but presumably it connects to something? It's also at this point, if the rod is disturbed just slightly before it enters the hole, that the flame cuts out.

Incidentally, there appears to be an error in the annotation of that exploded diagram. It states the grill thermocouple fitting into the thermostat housing rather than the oven thermocouple (i.e. part numbers 908 and 912).

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A thermocouple has the end that pokes into the flame, and a ‘tube’ running from the back of it. At the end of the tube is a fattened out bit with a captive nut. This end connects to the valve. If wiggling it makes it work then either the nut is loose or there’s a break within the tube bit. If it’s loose, tighten it. If the fault is internal, replace it :)

So in your diagram 908 screws into 912. If that nut is loose (unlikely) then tighten it. If the other end isn’t in the flame then move it. If wiggling it has any effect whatsoever then replace it. 

Edited by WotEver
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907 and 908 are the thermocouples, and the diagram shows how they are connected to the grill tap (891) and oven thermostat (912). But the 907/908 numbering seems to be swapped between the parts list and the diagram.

Although yours is a different model, I would expect the general arrangement to be similar. 

I recently had to partially dismantle the cooker on Fulbourne, and to reach the grill tap and thermostat required: first, removal of the knobs, then undoing the screws concealed beneath a couple of the knobs allowed the fascia panel to be removed, and that in turn revealed screws holding the hob panel down.  All pretty straightforward.

 

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12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

A thermocouple has the end that pokes into the flame, and a ‘tube’ running from the back of it. At the end of the tube is a fattened out bit with a captive nut. This end connects to the valve. If wiggling it makes it work then either the nut is loose or there’s a break within the tube bit. If it’s loose, tighten it. If the fault is internal, replace it :)

 

Ok, thanks, this is a big help, but i don't think i can get to the other end without removing the oven from its housing. Wouldn't i have to disconnect both the grill and oven gas supply pipes to do this? It's something i wouldn't be prepared to do since it would surely invalidate our insurance policy.

I'm sure you're on to the source of the problem though, because i noticed that the flame also cuts out if, once alight, you push the control knob in again and release it abruptly.

Edited by Froggy
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1 minute ago, Froggy said:

Ok, thanks, this is a big help, but i don't think i can get to the other end without removing the oven from its housing. Wouldn't i have to disconnect both the grill and oven gas supply pipes to do this? It's something i wouldn't be prepared to do since it would surely invalidate our insurance policy.

See David’s post. He explains it better than I did. 

I have no idea about your insurance policy but if you don’t feel confident to change the thermocouple then don’t. 

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

in your diagram 908 screws into 912.

Or indeed 907 screws into 891, which is the grill control valve. 

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13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

907 and 908 are the thermocouples, and the diagram shows how they are connected to the grill tap (891) and oven thermostat (912). But the 907/908 numbering seems to be swapped between the parts list and the diagram.

Although yours is a different model, I would expect the general arrangement to be similar. 

I recently had to partially dismantle the cooker on Fulbourne, and to reach the grill tap and thermostat required: first, removal of the knobs, then undoing the screws concealed beneath a couple of the knobs allowed the fascia panel to be removed, and that in turn revealed screws holding the hob panel down.  All pretty straightforward.

 

Ah, so what you seem to be implying is that i could remove the hob top panel (without disturbing the hob burners) and that this would give me access to the top of the oven assembly including the control valves? And if, as the .pdf diagram suggests, the oven thermostat is directly connected to the oven control knob (presumably the oven valve is part of the thermostat assembly) then this is also accessible (even though i wouldn't replace this myself if it is directly connected to the gas supply). Incidentally, the .pdf document is the correct document for our model, which is why i posted it.

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

See David’s post. He explains it better than I did. 

I have no idea about your insurance policy but if you don’t feel confident to change the thermocouple then don’t. 

Or indeed 907 screws into 891, which is the grill control valve. 

I would be confident enough to replace the thermocouple and any other part as long as it didn't involve dismantling the gas supply line at any point. I would expect that insurance companies would have a problem with any work done on a gas system not undertaken by a qualified gas engineer.

Regarding the exploded diagram, you might also have noticed that some of the parts, such as 114 and 878, aren't even listed in the table.

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20 hours ago, Froggy said:

Well, our Stoves Vanette CG7000 is falling apart, and we can't afford to replace it. It was original equipment on the boat, which makes it 21 years old. A few months after we took possession in November 2016 we noticed that the oven wasn't cooking food in anywhere near the expected time. Investigation showed that the flame didn't get any higher regardless of the control knob setting, suggesting the thermostat had failed. We've learned to live with that - you just have to allow approximately 4x the stated cooking time because it seems stuck on low setting, which means planning two or more hours in advance if you want to cook a pie or something. :lol: Yesterday though, i had trouble keeping the grill alight, the flame died as soon as i released the knob. A bit of manipulation with the thermocouple suggests this is the fault because after a little bit of gentle pushing and poking i got the thing working again - but if it is disturbed the flame dies. I looked around the internet last year and could find little in the way of spare parts for this cooker, and the one oven thermostat i found was several hundred £. Does anybody know where parts for this model can still be sourced, and also of any documentation in the way of maintenance manuals anywhere around the Web?

EDIT: the relevant model is possibly a GG7000, because this is all i can find on the Web, which means the original fitters misprinted this in the boat manual.

Interestingly, we had a GG7000 oven which developed the opposite problem to yours: the burner ran on full blast constantly so the oven just got hotter regardless of the setting on the control knob. Suspecting a faulty thermostat, like you we discovered the outrageously high cost of one so decided it wasn't a sufficiently big enough problem to justify it's replacement, so we just lived with it.

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