I got 99 problems and the Batts are one

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

I've seen a number of boats which have this, usually because they have a deep, Belfast type sink whose base is too close to the waterline for a simple drain. So you have one of these sump box arrangements to empty it. But as with the shower, I don't see why you can't have a manually switched Whale gulper pump to empty it, much simpler and therefore less to go wrong.

Ahhhhh - OK I can understand.

Although, why anyone would want to install a huge big sink that takes '100s of litres' of water to fill in an environment where the water supply is limited, I just cannot imagine.

 

But, you may argue, "you don't need to fill it " - in which case why have a huge deep sink in the first place ?

 

If the base of the sink is that low surely you are bending over to reach the pots in the bottom and it must be uncomfortable to be so hunched up (unless you suffer from being vertically challenged)

Its a good job we are not all the same - I'll stick with a conventional 'small' sink.

[nicknorman]

Well I think you have found the problem. The pump was activated but not actually pumping (whether a pump fault, wiring fault or blockage who knows) so it continued to pump for ever and this flattened the batteries completely. Almost certainly this has terminally killed the batteries or at least removed a massive amount of their capacity. New batteries required.

Obviously whilst the sump thing is what it is despite being a "bad idea", the solution is firstly to clean out the sump and pump on a regular basis. These sump boxes are not sealed as they have to allow displaced air in and out, and if the pump gets blocked etc the foul water will overflow into the bilges. Bad!

 

Secondly, when leaving the boat, ensure the electrics are turned off at the master switch, then this can't be a problem. But if it were my boat and a gravity drain was impossible, I would replace the sump with a whale gulper and manual switch. No more blockages, no more overflows, no more risk of long periods of a blocked pump running.

 

There are a few certainties in life, death and taxes being the popular ones, but another certainty is that sump boxes WILL clog up, WILL have sticky float switches, WILL lose electrical power and thus overflow, WILL get their gubbins blocked with grease and food and thus overflow. These are certainties, it is only a matter of time, and probably a short time. Thus dirty smelly water in the bilges is an inevitability. Get a Gulper!

[BruceinSanity]

13 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

There are a few certainties in life, death and taxes being the popular ones, but another certainty is that sump boxes WILL clog up, WILL have sticky float switches, WILL lose electrical power and thus overflow, WILL get their gubbins blocked with grease and food and thus overflow. These are certainties, it is only a matter of time, and probably a short time. Thus dirty smelly water in the bilges is an inevitability. Get a Gulper!

Good grief, Nick, I am entirely in agreement with you, must be the fine weather! 

[dor]

I completely flattened 4 110 AHr batteries in decent condition by leaving the fridge door open and not turning off the isolator.

 

After many hours of recharging from the alternator, I eventually got the batteries to show as fully charged (charge current <3A).

They lasted me another two years so all may not be lost.

[Ssscrudddy]

Gotta agree. If the sink has to empty with a pump instead of gravity, then get a whale gulper & manual switch.

When I got my boat the shower waste pump was a sump pump. It regularly blocked up & overflowed into the cabin bilge. Changed it to a whale gulper  & manual switch 4 years ago & haven't had any problems since

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ssscrudddy

[system 4-50]

Sink Rules:

• gravity to outside is best if you can do it ie you have the required sink-edge to water level height difference. 
• big diameter waste pipe with no trap is much to be preferred for gravity mode
• if its to be pumped then a manual-switched Gulper is best and can be sited almost any where/height.
• a sump pump is the absolute worst solution
• I have no idea what the concensus is on auto-switched Gulpers or whether the sink should have a built-in overflow.

Any dissenters out there?

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Any dissenters out there?

No - but just an observation -

 

No much point in having an overflow if you have a manual pump switch.

[Tony Brooks]

Except the overflow may be high enough to go straight out of the hull.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Except the overflow may be high enough to go straight out of the hull.

Good point - well made !!

[Boater Sam]

No, the spiders get in!!!!!

[WotEver]

I like spiders. 

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I like spiders. 

 

On toast? ?

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

On toast? ?

Yeah, they tickle as they go down

[BWM]

On 04/05/2018 at 15:09, nicknorman said:

Well I think you have found the problem. The pump was activated but not actually pumping (whether a pump fault, wiring fault or blockage who knows) so it continued to pump for ever and this flattened the batteries completely. Almost certainly this has terminally killed the batteries or at least removed a massive amount of their capacity. New batteries required.

Obviously whilst the sump thing is what it is despite being a "bad idea", the solution is firstly to clean out the sump and pump on a regular basis. These sump boxes are not sealed as they have to allow displaced air in and out, and if the pump gets blocked etc the foul water will overflow into the bilges. Bad!

 

Secondly, when leaving the boat, ensure the electrics are turned off at the master switch, then this can't be a problem. But if it were my boat and a gravity drain was impossible, I would replace the sump with a whale gulper and manual switch. No more blockages, no more overflows, no more risk of long periods of a blocked pump running.

 

There are a few certainties in life, death and taxes being the popular ones, but another certainty is that sump boxes WILL clog up, WILL have sticky float switches, WILL lose electrical power and thus overflow, WILL get their gubbins blocked with grease and food and thus overflow. These are certainties, it is only a matter of time, and probably a short time. Thus dirty smelly water in the bilges is an inevitability. Get a Gulper!

Whale supply a dedicated grey water tank With built in switch, to use in conjunction with the gulper. I use one due to the draft of my boat. It's a nice bit of kit but I have found it requires regular cleaning of the solid state switch, or at some stage it will trigger the pump every couple of minutes. 

[Dr Bob]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Yeah, they tickle as they go down

Do you spit the legs out??

[WotEver]

44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Do you spit the legs out??

They tend to get stuck between your teeth. It makes a good conversation piece. 

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

They tend to get stuck between your teeth. It makes a good conversation piece. 

Our old cat used to make little piles of spiders legs strategically place around the house.

[WotEver]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

Our old cat used to make little piles of spiders legs strategically place around the house.

Our old cat used to proudly dump onto our bed the remains of whatever creature she’d mercilessly tortured to death. 

 

I like kittens. I’m not so keen on cats. 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Except the overflow may be high enough to go straight out of the hull.

 

The overflow on a Belfast sink is integrated into the sink casting and discharges through slots in the side of the sink waste fitting, and out through the main waste connection. 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The overflow on a Belfast sink is integrated into the sink casting and discharges through slots in the side of the sink waste fitting, and out through the main waste connection. 

That's why I thought it wouldn't work.

In effect its overflowing into a 'closed' pipe which will only 'empty' if the pump is running and that would only run by manual intervention.

[Naughty Cal]

On 04/05/2018 at 15:09, nicknorman said:

Well I think you have found the problem. The pump was activated but not actually pumping (whether a pump fault, wiring fault or blockage who knows) so it continued to pump for ever and this flattened the batteries completely. Almost certainly this has terminally killed the batteries or at least removed a massive amount of their capacity. New batteries required.

Obviously whilst the sump thing is what it is despite being a "bad idea", the solution is firstly to clean out the sump and pump on a regular basis. These sump boxes are not sealed as they have to allow displaced air in and out, and if the pump gets blocked etc the foul water will overflow into the bilges. Bad!

 

Secondly, when leaving the boat, ensure the electrics are turned off at the master switch, then this can't be a problem. But if it were my boat and a gravity drain was impossible, I would replace the sump with a whale gulper and manual switch. No more blockages, no more overflows, no more risk of long periods of a blocked pump running.

 

There are a few certainties in life, death and taxes being the popular ones, but another certainty is that sump boxes WILL clog up, WILL have sticky float switches, WILL lose electrical power and thus overflow, WILL get their gubbins blocked with grease and food and thus overflow. These are certainties, it is only a matter of time, and probably a short time. Thus dirty smelly water in the bilges is an inevitability. Get a Gulper!

Agree with all of this.

 

We have a sump box for our shower drain and it is a pain in the Rse. 

 

Had the boat ten years now and we are on our third box, switch and pump. Rubbish design and if we physically had room for anything else we would have replaced it years ago.

[NB Esk]

Well, if I could put the other side to the sump box, seems a no brainer to have one for the shower and then not to have the sink drain into it.  Mine is a sealed unit (so it can't overflow) contains a float switch only (required cleaning crap off once in last four years) coupled to an external whale gulper.  No problems, more than happy with it.  

The added bonus, as I look across to a wide beam with no fewer than eight various skin fittings, down his starboard side ( and I know there's at least one below the waterline) god knows how many there are down his port side.  There is one in my hull.  (55' steel nb)

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

Well, if I could put the other side to the sump box, seems a no brainer to have one for the shower and then not to have the sink drain into it.  Mine is a sealed unit (so it can't overflow) contains a float switch only (required cleaning crap off once in last four years) coupled to an external whale gulper.  No problems, more than happy with it.  

The added bonus, as I look across to a wide beam with no fewer than eight various skin fittings, down his starboard side ( and I know there's at least one below the waterline) god knows how many there are down his port side.  There is one in my hull.  (55' steel nb)

If your box is sealed, how does water flow into it? What happens to the displaced air? How does air get back in when the pump kicks in and drains the box? These boxes tend to have screwed-on lids but are not actually sealed, so that air can get in and out. Perhaps yours is different but it’s hard to see how it could work if it’s sealed.

[DanMax&Belle]

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

They tend to get stuck between your teeth. It makes a good conversation piece. 

 

11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Do you spit the legs out??

Can you all stop flirting on this deadly serious battery/sump box post please?  

[NB Esk]

7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

If your box is sealed, how does water flow into it? What happens to the displaced air? How does air get back in when the pump kicks in and drains the box? These boxes tend to have screwed-on lids but are not actually sealed, so that air can get in and out. Perhaps yours is different but it’s hard to see how it could work if it’s sealed.

Lol, when I say sealed, I'm meaning as far as water leaking out of it.  It replaced one of the rubbish ones with the internal pumps, that would leak if the pump didn't kick in.  This one just has a large screw fit inspection plate, sealed with an o ring.  From memory it might be whale brand, works fine....