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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ah now while you're on Dr Bob, and being our resident chemist, do you have any idea what might actually be in these bottles of snake oil corrosion inhibitor we like to pour into our central heating water?

A big difference in the environment is central heating system water only has a small surface area exposed to atmosphere and oxygen, while the bilge has a large area reltive to the steel area one is attempting to protect.

Now, whilst I rate myself as a good chemist, I have no clue how these corrosion inhibitors work. I never really got into inorganic chemistry. I will go and have a google and see what I can find.

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

lol, and I think if we put Mr Rusty's pic on, a company in the USA might have a few objections!

 

Ah, thats it "Rusty's bilge protector" . I don't need you after all. I'm off up screwfix to stock up and then the patent office. 

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Just now, WotEver said:

That’s exactly what I was wondering. A central heating system is pretty much sealed when compared to a bilge. 

 

Some systems are completely sealed, others have about 1.5 sq ft of water surface in the header tank exposed to free air.

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Some systems are completely sealed, others have about 1.5 sq ft of water surface in the header tank exposed to free air.

Yes, but even the latter could be considered sealed when compared to a bilge. It’s not like the header tank Water circulates much, if at all. 

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Ah, thats it "Rusty's bilge protector" . I don't need you after all. I'm off up screwfix to stock up and then the patent office. 

 

As Edward De Bono used to say, having a Good Idea is the easiest bit of starting a new business.

Or was that Trevor Bayliss?

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Ah, thats it "Rusty's bilge protector" . I don't need you after all. I'm off up screwfix to stock up and then the patent office. 

Do you really want the product to be called “Rusty Bilge”?

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

As Edward De Bono used to say, having a Good Idea is the easiest bit of starting a new business.

Or was that Trevor Bayliss?

This time next year we'll be squillionaires Rodders! 

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3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Now, whilst I rate myself as a good chemist, I have no clue how these corrosion inhibitors work. I never really got into inorganic chemistry. I will go and have a google and see what I can find.

You can't get out of it that easily, I believe the ones used in antifreeze are ORGANIC ACIDS :D  There is an obscure forum thread somewhere on the www describing the stuff that John Deere use.

..............Dave

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5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Do you really want the product to be called “Rusty Bilge”?

You watch. It'll fly off the shelf. Specially after I've been on Dragons Den with a song.

Edited by rusty69
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A two second look at wikipedia says

In this example, hydrazine converts oxygen, a common corrosive agent, to water, which is generally benign. Related inhibitors of oxygen corrosion are hexamine, phenylenediamine, and dimethylethanolamine, and their derivatives. Antioxidants such as sulfite and ascorbic acid are sometimes used. Some corrosion inhibitors form a passivating coating on the surface by chemisorption.

Corrosion protection is all about 2 things. 1) stopping oxygen getting to the surface or 2) passivating the surface so if 02 gets there, it cant react to make rust.

Looks then that there are different types of corrosion inhibitor. The hydrazine one converts oxygen to water so would work very well in a sealed heating system where not much oxygen is present. Seems easy to mop up all oxygen and scavenge new oxygen that gets in. This obviously wouldnt work in the bilge.

The passivating coatings however sound interesting. Here there will be chemicals in the corrosion inhibitor that will be deposited on the steel surface via chemisoption and hence passivate the steel. This should work in the bilge. I guess there will be a competition between chemisorption of the inhibitor and oxygen dissolved in water fighting its way in via osmotic pressure in areas that are oily. If the bilge is wet anyway, the passivation route is likely to be better than nothing.

Worth looking at the details of some specific corrosion inhibitors to see what chemicals they contain so see if they are passivating type inhibitors. Whilst formulations will be secret, the trick is to look at the manufactures MSDS sheet (material health and safety data sheet) and it usually shows all the component chemicals.

Took me longer to type the post than to research it!

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3 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Is there a reason why the bilge cannot be treated with something like Waxoil from new? Works on cars well enough.

It works well in box sections and on vertical surfaces but not good for immersion duty. Water will still get in via osmosis as it does through paints. It would be sticky, messy and likely start to smell according to an early post by Roland.

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I have a bottle of Kamco Systemsafe DM here, generally regarded as the best inhibitor money can buy. Nothing on it says what's in it!

A 5 sec Google finds the data sheet which states it contains A MIXTURE OF: 5- CHLORO-2-METHYL- 2H-ISOTHIAZOL-3- ONE [EC NO 247-500- 7] AND 2-METHYL-2H- ISOTHIAZOL-3-O & SODIUM NITRITE

http://www.kamco.co.uk/MSDS/SystemsafeDM.pdf

How that ties in with DrBob’s post though I have no idea. 

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I have a bottle of Kamco Systemsafe DM here, generally regarded as the best inhibitor money can buy. Nothing on it says what's in it!

MSDS at

http://www.kamco.co.uk/MSDS/SystemsafeDMConcentrate.pdf

Contains Dodecandioic Acid, Benzotriazole and Bronopol(??)

The acid will be an oxygen scavenger so works by getting rid of oxygen and the Benzotriazole (as per wikipedia) is one of the passivating chemicals to be used specifically on copper. This therefore is working by using both methods. Not a clue what Bronopol is. Not likely to work that well in the bilge - probably better to find a passivating one that is designed for steel.

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27 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

You watch. It'll fly off the shelf. Specially after I've been on Dragons Den with a song.

OK.Ive been working on my Dragons den song:-

Does your boat have Fe203?

Worry not,just come to me.

Chuck it in your bilge, and wait a while.

I'm sitting in St Lucia with a wicked smile.

 

Proven to protect for 7 years.

A Daquiri for her,and for me some beers.

Rusty's bilge protector for all round protection..............

(I've run out of lines.Anyone care to contribute? I'm offering a 5% share of the company)

4 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Which song?  Something by Mary J Bilge?

:clapping:

Edited by rusty69
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7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

A 5 sec Google finds the data sheet which states it contains A MIXTURE OF: 5- CHLORO-2-METHYL- 2H-ISOTHIAZOL-3- ONE [EC NO 247-500- 7] AND 2-METHYL-2H- ISOTHIAZOL-3-O & SODIUM NITRITE

http://www.kamco.co.uk/MSDS/SystemsafeDM.pdf

How that ties in with DrBob’s post though I have no idea. 

You should have taken 10 seconds and looked at the 'concentrate' link. My link is the concentrate which seems to have the correct 'active' ingredients. Not sure what is in the one you found.

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2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

You should have taken 10 seconds and looked at the 'concentrate' link. My link is the concentrate which seems to have the correct 'active' ingredients. Not sure what is in the one you found.

Maybe he needs to concentrate,and keep UPs

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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

OK.Ive been working on my Dragons den song:-

Does your boat have Fe203?

Worry not,just come to me.

Chuck it in your bilge, and wait a while.

I'm sitting in St Lucia with a wicked smile.

 

Proven to protect for 7 years.

A Daquiri for her,and a beer for me.

Rusty's bilge protector for all round protection..............

(I've run out of lines.Anyone care to contribute? I'm offering a 5% share of the company)

:clapping:

the only thing I can think of that rhymes with protection ......is a nerection. Let me work on it.

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