Related to "am I sinking"

[JerryDu33]

Notice: I wanted to post this in the topic "I am sinking" in the FAQ but it is locked so I put it here.

 

Hi there,

Like many other people before, I have some water problems in by accommodation and motor bilge. I read quite a lot of threads in this forum and elsewhere to know how to solve the problem, but there is one question I could not find any precise answer for: how detrimental is it to have a bit of water or dampness in the bilges?

Here is the background of my question.

Chapter 1 - Accommodation bilge

A few weeks ago I opened the hatch to look into the accommodation bilge (which is at the deepest point of the cabin) and discovered with surprise it was full of water. I mopped up the approx. 30 litres of more or less clean but reddish water and went through forums to find possible explanations. I checked all pipes I could find, looked for signs of dampness, checked the wall insulation where I could access it and looked at the windows to find possible sources of leaks. Of course I could not find any leak so far. I expected the water to come back in the bilge (I continued to use domestic water normally and there has been quite a lot of rain falling), but surprisingly after 3 weeks I couldn't mop up more than 1.5 litres. I even suspect this water was not new, rather some water I missed out the first time I mopped up. There may be a small leak somewhere, though, because the water pump would kick in a few times during the day, like 5 times per 24h for less than a half second each time. Also my heating system tends to "consume" water. I guess it will take time to find the leak, which I now expect to be very small. The 30 litres I mopped out the first time may have been accumulated over months, if not years.

Chapter 2 - motor bilge

There is always a bit of water there. I moped approx. 7 litres a few days ago and after two days the water was back again. At the deepest the water is about 1 to 2 cm, so the bilge pump wouldn't even activate. The water is in the motor tray and in the compartments on each side of the motor tray. The axle/shaft to the propeller/screw is well greased and tight. No water coming from here and the compartment below is the only one which is dry. I suspect the water to come from rainwater (once again, it rained a lot), condensation (the ceiling of the motor room is full of hanging droplets longing for freedom) or some default of the calorifier.

Long story short: in both cases, it is not a massive amount of water and I guess it will take time before I can get the bilges systematically dry. Should I worry about having a bit of water or dampness in the bilges? Will the hull rust, with risk of structural weaknesses? Should I worry my boat will sink one day or can I just lean back and relax because it is just normal to have a bit of water?

I am thankful for any hint!

PS: additional question: does it make sense to put computer fans to create a continuous airflow and keep the accommodation bilge dry? I read this somewhere and thought it makes sense, but I also read it is better to keep the hatches closed to prevent condensation... So I don't really know what to think.

[MtB]

What sort of boat do you have? Welded steel? Riveted iron? Something else?

[roland elsdon]

Yes your boat will eventually sink if you do nothing. However this may take some time and is entirely preventable, with routine maintenance. The time taken between now and a putative sinking is entirely dependant upon the intensity of your maintainance regime.

boats rot from the inside and rot and wear from the outside. If you can eliminate the first then the steel is rotting in only one direction. This may now be somewhat too late and may have started way back from when the boat was built, the prep done and subsequent maintainance . A friends boat went through on the cabin top in the mid 2000s it was a 1970s build with a wipe of red oxide before fitting out. Slab insulation and 35 years meant the top rotted from the inside. He was meticulous about the hull, but even so 7 years ago he was faced with overplate or scrap. Overplate became maintainance. 

My boat and previous boats have had loads of work done , fortunately before the event. Even so I have several times knocked holes in footings. Unless you hit something sharp it's not dramatic a damp spot increase in bilge water or the cat getting interested and chasing the trickling noise. My boat didn't sink even when president and Kildare tore it off its moorings smashed it against the bank and sprang a bottom board, the initial repair a sock hammered in the hole and then after a cup of tea a bit of oakum and grease and it lasted til the next dock. I have also put bolts and washers through holes.

dock it regularly keep it painted don't allow electrolysis and you will be fine. Enjoy.

[WotEver]

Do you want water in the accommodation bilge? No. The hull will rust from the inside as said above  

Keep mopping it up and try to arrange better ventilation of the area - a slot or series of holes in the floor at the back of the fridge will assist with ventilation as it pulls the cool air up over the coils. 

Most importantly, find out where it is coming from and cure it. Kitchen towel placed below any plumbing joint will be a good indicator of a leak. It could also be condensation (ventilation helps here). Or it could be a leak from a window or even a roof vent. 

Or it could be historical (someone spilled a load of water years ago) in which case it will eventually disappear as you keep mopping it up. 

[koukouvagia]

3 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

dock it regularly keep it painted don't allow electrolysis and you will be fine. Enjoy.

... and have some epoxy putty in your toolbox in case the worst happens. 

Believe me, oozing damp patches are one thing, but a water spout entering the boat is a bit daunting.

[Dr Bob]

Continue to mop out weekly and monitor quantities. It won't take long before a pattern emerges. Rain, heating system water, condensation. Same for engine bay. This is our first winter on a steel boat and surprised just how much condensation there can be. On a badly designed boat you could be getting a litre a night into the bilge. 

[Dave_P]

I suspect this thread will fill up with people proudly declaring that their bilges are always dry, while huge numbers of others are too self-conscious to admit that theirs aren't.  These will fall into two groups:  The first will have spent years constantly battling against wet bilges - using pumps, wet vacs, nappies, tonneau covers over cruiser sterns etc.  The second will remember when they used to do that and ended up getting weary of trying to be King Canute, and now simply live with their shameful secret - wet bilges.

Of course, it's better for bilges to be dry but to achieve that is nigh on impossible for many boats.  Rainwater ingress through cruiser sterns, condensation and other factors simply prevent it in any practical sense.  

Also, bear in mind that some boats were designed to have wet bilges.

Don't have nightmares, do sleep well.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Dave_P

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Dave_P said:

Don't have nightmares, do sleep well.

.... Do sleep with one arm dangling out of your bed

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

... and have some epoxy putty in your toolbox in case the worst happens. 

Believe me, oozing damp patches are one thing, but a water spout entering the boat is a bit daunting.

 

[Bee]

Its boats innit. Old wooden boats used to be common, then steel became the norm on canals but with minimal maintainance,  now steel is still the norm but owners are more aware of the drawbacks and epoxy / regular painting is more common but still they corrode. 'Twas ever so. Overplating and repair will happen and its just part of the life of a boat , don't panic. There are steel and iron boats going around of more than a century old, that's not bad is it. I expect there will be Springers several decades old still giving good service with new steel in them in the future. Don't panic (or learn how to weld upside down whilst lying in muddy water)

[dmr]

I suspect that if you live on a boat in the winter then its very difficult to prevent at least a bit of condensation. The water is very cold and so the boats steel will be very cold, humans produce water vapour and this will try to condense on any steel it can find. Trying to prevent the air temperature inside the boat from falling during the night should help quite a bit but will require burning more fuel and maybe getting up in the small hours to tend to the stove.

How old are you and how old is the boat? The boat will eventually rust through but it might be somebody elses problem.

................Dave

 

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

I suspect this thread will fill up with people proudly declaring that their bilges are always dry, while huge numbers of others are too self-conscious to admit that theirs aren't.  These will fall into two groups:  The first will have spent years constantly battling against wet bilges - using pumps, wet vacs, nappies, tonneau covers over cruiser sterns etc.  The second will remember when they used to do that and ended up getting weary of trying to be King Canute, and now simply live with their shameful secret - wet bilges.

Of course, it's better for bilges to be dry but to achieve that is nigh on impossible for many boats.  Rainwater ingress through cruiser sterns, condensation and other factors simply prevent it in any practical sense.  

Also, bear in mind that some boats were designed to have wet bilges.

Don't have nightmares, do sleep well.

 

 

 

All very true. My boat has a permanently wet bilge under the stern gland because it drips slightly, and under the front well deck as the cratch cover isn't 100% rain-tight. 

An idea I keep meaning to carry out but still haven't, is to pour a litre of central heating corrosion inhibitor into each wet space. 

[pete.i]

It's what automatic bilge pumps were invented for. If you have a boat you have to keep an eye on it. You cannot really leave them for months on end and not expect nothing to happen. More often than not nothing does happen but that premise cannot be relied on. Oh and I am not suggesting that the OP does leave his boat unattended for months on end. It's just that a lot do and good leisure batteries and a working automatic bilge pump will HELP to keep a boat afloat.

[Jess--]

14 minutes ago, pete.i said:

It's what automatic bilge pumps were invented for. If you have a boat you have to keep an eye on it. You cannot really leave them for months on end and not expect nothing to happen. More often than not nothing does happen but that premise cannot be relied on. Oh and I am not suggesting that the OP does leave his boat unattended for months on end. It's just that a lot do and good leisure batteries and a working automatic bilge pump will HELP to keep a boat afloat.

add solar into that mix (keeping the leisure batteries charged up)

edit...
also make sure the bilge pump runs from leisure batteries not the starter battery, they tend to be a far bigger capacity and if they go flat you can still start the engine to recharge them (without having to mess around with jump leads)

Edited April 5, 2018 by Jess--

[WotEver]

29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

An idea I keep meaning to carry out but still haven't, is to pour a litre of central heating corrosion inhibitor into each wet space. 

Novel idea. Would it work?

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Novel idea. Would it work?

I have no idea but why not if it is wet anyway? It cant be any worse and likely better. However if it is normally dry then I wouldnt.

[rusty69]

41 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

An idea I keep meaning to carry out but still haven't, is to pour a litre of central heating corrosion inhibitor into each wet space. 

Ah, a new product. Mike the Boilermans bilge protector. One application protects your bilges for up to 7 years. 

It could become as big as Captain Tolleys, or Reggae reggae sauce. 

Do you want to be partners? We could put a picture of a little dog on the bottle. 

 

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I have no idea but why not if it is wet anyway? It cant be any worse and likely better. However if it is normally dry then I wouldnt.

Well yeah, no point making something dry wet. I like the idea - lateral thinking. 

[Mike Hurley]

20 years ago i was a concrete pump operator, got called to Portbury dock in Bristol to pump 3 cubic metres of super strong waterproof concrete into the hull of a leaking car transporter from Japan. Working 15 metres below the waterline with water spurting in my face from a cracked weld in a confined space in between all the bulkheads was fairly scary. The ship carried 5000 cars, massive beast. Lloyds insurance guy watched the whole thing. Apparently when back in Japan the ship would have that section of hull cut out and a new piece welded in. Concrete was used because they said a welded repair may crack again, it got back to Japan safely. By the time the pipes had been loaded back on the truck the concrete was hard and no sign of the leak.

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I have no idea but why not if it is wet anyway? It cant be any worse and likely better. However if it is normally dry then I wouldnt.

 

Ah now while you're on Dr Bob, and being our resident chemist, do you have any idea what might actually be in these bottles of snake oil corrosion inhibitor we like to pour into our central heating water?

A big difference in the environment is central heating system water only has a small surface area exposed to atmosphere and oxygen, while the bilge has a large area reltive to the steel area one is attempting to protect.

[Dr Bob]

10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Ah, a new product. Mike the Boilermans bilge protector. One application protects your bilges for up to 7 years. 

It could become as big as Captain Tolleys, or Reggae reggae sauce. 

Do you want to be partners? We could put a picture of a little dog on the bottle. 

 

No, I dont want my picture on a bottle!

[rusty69]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

No, I dont want my picture on a bottle!

Stop that. You have a serious question to answer. 

[MtB]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

No, I dont want my picture on a bottle!

 

lol, and I think if we put Mr Rusty's pic on, a company in the USA might have a few objections!

 

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ah now while you're on Dr Bob, and being our resident chemist, do you have any idea what might actually be in these bottles of snake oil corrosion inhibitor we like to pour into our central heating water?

A big difference in the environment is central heating system water only has a small surface area exposed to atmosphere and oxygen, while the bilge has a large area reltive to the steel area one is attempting to protect.

That’s exactly what I was wondering. A central heating system is pretty much sealed when compared to a bilge. 

[dmr]

55 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

All very true. My boat has a permanently wet bilge under the stern gland because it drips slightly, and under the front well deck as the cratch cover isn't 100% rain-tight. 

An idea I keep meaning to carry out but still haven't, is to pour a litre of central heating corrosion inhibitor into each wet space. 

You can also get "top ups" of the corrosion inhibitor for anti freeze to make it last longer (the actual anti-freeze lasts forever,its the corrosion inhibitor that wears out.Maybe its the same stuff. I wonder if this would be beneficial or counter-productive for areas that get wet then dry out again?.

.................Dave