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Heating oil, kerosene urgent info needed


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12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

My Dickinson uses diesel

Funnily enough so does mine ....... around 6 litres per day to keep a 60ft nb toasty in the dead of winter, while heating the water, central heating and cooking the odd meal.

Out of curiosity I looked up the spec of a Rayburn XT and had to sit down rapidly when I saw its daily fuel consumption!

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6 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Funnily enough so does mine ....... around 6 litres per day to keep a 60ft nb toasty in the dead of winter, while heating the water, central heating and cooking the odd meal.

Out of curiosity I looked up the spec of a Rayburn XT and had to sit down rapidly when I saw its daily fuel consumption!

As the XT and 400 series of Rayburn's are Pressure Jet they can be cycled to meet demand so would only be on when required if used for heating.   However, as the OP has only has one for cooking it's around 1.15ltr per hour by the looks of it when cooking.

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11 minutes ago, Robbo said:

As the XT and 400 series of Rayburn's are Pressure Jet they can be cycled to meet demand so would only be on when required if used for heating.   However, as the OP has only has one for cooking it's around 1.15ltr per hour by the looks of it when cooking.

Comparing like with like: Rayburn quote a figure of 20.5 litres for a 24hr period in a typical heating and cooking regime ........... albeit in a domestic application. But then houses are somewhat larger than nbs!

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6 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Comparing like with like: Rayburn quote a figure of 20.5 litres for a 24hr period in a typical heating and cooking regime ........... albeit in a domestic application. But then houses are somewhat larger than nbs!

It's not like for like tho is it.   That Rayburn (Rayburn make one like the Dickinson as well (200 series I believe) ) is only on when their is demand and is controlled via a thermostat.  Your Dickinson is always on even if their is no demand and is controlled manually.   Like for like the Rayburn will use less fuel.

Edited by Robbo
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  • 1 year later...

I have a narrowboat in Milton Keynes and it has no heating.  I am considering buying two 5,000 BTU kerosene heaters to heat it through the winter.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that, i.e. as to whether kerosene heaters are the most suitable heating, kerosene supplies in small amounts in the MK area, or any other useful info?  Thanks.

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44 minutes ago, PhilWill said:

I have a narrowboat in Milton Keynes and it has no heating.  I am considering buying two 5,000 BTU kerosene heaters to heat it through the winter.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that, i.e. as to whether kerosene heaters are the most suitable heating, kerosene supplies in small amounts in the MK area, or any other useful info?  Thanks.

It will be awfley wet inside at the end of the winter. Condensation will be horrendous.

 

 

Edited by Loddon
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13 hours ago, PhilWill said:

I have a narrowboat in Milton Keynes and it has no heating.  I am considering buying two 5,000 BTU kerosene heaters to heat it through the winter.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that, i.e. as to whether kerosene heaters are the most suitable heating, kerosene supplies in small amounts in the MK area, or any other useful info?  Thanks.

And you might die from that idea! As well as water rather nasty gases are created when burning kero

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13 hours ago, PhilWill said:

I have a narrowboat in Milton Keynes and it has no heating.  I am considering buying two 5,000 BTU kerosene heaters to heat it through the winter.  Does anyone have any thoughts on that, i.e. as to whether kerosene heaters are the most suitable heating, kerosene supplies in small amounts in the MK area, or any other useful info?  Thanks.

If you have electric hook-up just use electric heaters.

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35 minutes ago, peterboat said:

And you might die from that idea! As well as water rather nasty gases are created when burning kero

 

Specifically, if you have inadequate fresh air being circulated through the boat cabin when the heaters are alight, the oxygen level in the room atmosphere is slowly reduced by the combustion in the heaters. Eventually it gets down to the level when carbon monoxide is produced, which is the one that kills people. People also have a perverse tendency to block up the air vents supplying fresh oxygenated air, to stop the cold draught.

 

This effect is particularly dangerous as you just begin to feel tired and listless in the early stages of carbon monoxide poisoning, and everything feels like too much trouble, including unblocking the air vents or opening a door or window. 

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I don't know exactly what type the Kero heaters are - but if they're similar to mine then -

(It's a high speed blown air jobby with a pressure jet burner. I use it to heat my home workshop when is B* cold)

 Not very efficient, thus the hot air is loaded with Kero conponents that don't bur very well - or at all. I addition a lot of water vapour is generated. The result it smelly damp air, which doesn't dissipate easily.

I supect your proposed units have similar drawbacks - that's why they are cheap / inexpensive.

 

Kerosene / Gas Oils are known as 'residuals' in the petrochemical trade. Not a lot of use for anything other than burning or propulsion. 

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2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I don't know exactly what type the Kero heaters are - but if they're similar to mine then -

(It's a high speed blown air jobby with a pressure jet burner. I use it to heat my home workshop when is B* cold)

 Not very efficient, thus the hot air is loaded with Kero conponents that don't bur very well - or at all. I addition a lot of water vapour is generated. The result it smelly damp air, which doesn't dissipate easily.

I supect your proposed units have similar drawbacks - that's why they are cheap / inexpensive.

 

Kerosene / Gas Oils are known as 'residuals' in the petrochemical trade. Not a lot of use for anything other than burning or propulsion. 

 

Old Goat and others, thanks for the feedback.  Internal kerosene heaters no longer in the running!  Never considered the poison gases given off.  When I was young living in Gloucestershire (many years ago) my parents had a stand-up round black kerosene heater going all through the winter inside the house!  Years ago you used to see many such heaters around.  But that was within a house rather than on a narrowboat, so much larger space!

 

I looked at electric heating but their operating costs get very high.  

 

An alternative might be radiators with an Eberspracher unit feeding off my upper diesel holding tank (contents pumped up from the main underfloor tank).  I looked at that in the past, but quite expensive to have someone install.  I assume the air-pollution question is there addressed by having that unit's exhaust gases ventilate to the outside of the boat.  Someone mentioned that there are suppliers selling used Eberspracher units and components needed with them, but I have not been able to locate any such supplier.  Anyone have any experience in installing such system themself?

 

Anyway, thanks again for the previous feedback.  Very helpful.

 

Phil

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10 minutes ago, PhilWill said:

Someone mentioned that there are suppliers selling used Eberspracher units and components needed with them, but I have not been able to locate any such supplier. 

Be very careful - many / most / all of those units are designed for automotive use and are different to marine ones.

 

1) Apparently the chip (voltage) is different

2) You need to buy a marine exhaust kit as the 'exhaust' simply exits under the vehicle (not possible in a boat)

3) The silencer has a hole in it to allow condensation to drip out , this also allows CO gas to escape, which is OK on a vehicle, but on a boat the gases would be retained inside the boat.

 

People do buy them, modify them and buy the additional components but do not think of them as 'plug & play'.

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19 minutes ago, PhilWill said:

 

Old Goat and others, thanks for the feedback.  Internal kerosene heaters no longer in the running!  Never considered the poison gases given off.  When I was young living in Gloucestershire (many years ago) my parents had a stand-up round black kerosene heater going all through the winter inside the house!  Years ago you used to see many such heaters around.  But that was within a house rather than on a narrowboat, so much larger space!

 

I looked at electric heating but their operating costs get very high.  

 

An alternative might be radiators with an Eberspracher unit feeding off my upper diesel holding tank (contents pumped up from the main underfloor tank).  I looked at that in the past, but quite expensive to have someone install.  I assume the air-pollution question is there addressed by having that unit's exhaust gases ventilate to the outside of the boat.  Someone mentioned that there are suppliers selling used Eberspracher units and components needed with them, but I have not been able to locate any such supplier.  Anyone have any experience in installing such system themself?

 

Anyway, thanks again for the previous feedback.  Very helpful.

 

Phil

Those heaters were indeed very common - at least in the countryside. However, the fuel was further purified and sold in small quantitites ('cos it was expensive). It still smelt a bit - but bearable. When ancient folks mention 'paraffin' that's what they meant. Kerosene was not generally available for domestic customers, although it was available  as some farm tractors ran on it.   

 

ps: I'm wondering why you really need to run heating when the boat is unattended?

If the boat is damp, then that's not normal and you should mebe sort that out i.e. organise some ventillation.

I live some distance from the boat - so I semi - winterise it and wake it up when I visit occasionally - but that's a further topic.

Edited by OldGoat
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1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

Kerosene was not generally available for domestic customers, although it was available  as some farm tractors ran on it.   

I had an old 'Fergy' TE20 that was Petrol/TVO.

TVO was actually a sort of Kerosene but actually had the aromatics put back in to increase the Octane rating. The engine was started on petrol and once hot the tap was switched over to the TVO tank, whilst the engine was working hard (ploughing etc) it would remain hot enough, but under light load (running on the road etc) it did not run very well and you had to revert back to petrol.

 

TVO production ceased in 1974 but we could still 'make it' by mixing Kero and petrol in the correct proportions.

 

(Vintage vehicles are still allowed to use rebated fuel oils).

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I had an old 'Fergy' TE20 that was Petrol/TVO.

TVO was actually a sort of Kerosene but actually had the aromatics put back in to increase the Octane rating. The engine was started on petrol and once hot the tap was switched over to the TVO tank, whilst the engine was working hard (ploughing etc) it would remain hot enough, but under light load (running on the road etc) it did not run very well and you had to revert back to petrol.

 

TVO production ceased in 1974 but we could still 'make it' by mixing Kero and petrol in the correct proportions.

 

(Vintage vehicles are still allowed to use rebated fuel oils).

I were but a young lad on his 'olidays from t'smoke and the local farmer - to shut me up - all owed me to machine rake one of his fields . I managed to stall the tractor and couldn't restart it - no electric start and I was only about 9 or 10 years old, thus had to walk back to the farm to get him to restart it (even he had a bit of a struggle) It was a 'norange Allis Chalmers IIRC, probably part of Lend Lease.

What you could do and get away with it (under age kids)  - no H&S in them days...

 

A shame really as everybody's insulated from 'life' now, most things are regulated and it's difficult to try anything new and thereby understand what the other chap's trying to do.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I had an old 'Fergy' TE20 that was Petrol/TVO.

TVO was actually a sort of Kerosene but actually had the aromatics put back in to increase the Octane rating. The engine was started on petrol and once hot the tap was switched over to the TVO tank, whilst the engine was working hard (ploughing etc) it would remain hot enough, but under light load (running on the road etc) it did not run very well and you had to revert back to petrol.

 

TVO production ceased in 1974 but we could still 'make it' by mixing Kero and petrol in the correct proportions.

 

(Vintage vehicles are still allowed to use rebated fuel oils).

Remember them well the TVO was heated before it went in the carb so it would vaporise, if you wanted to be a sod for the next user you stopped it on the TVO!!☹️ Luckily the had carb drains otherwise they would never have got them started

Edited by peterboat
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7 minutes ago, PhilWill said:

Hello.

 

Has anyone had any experience with installing an Eberspracher central heating system by themself on their boat?  Quite expensive to hire someone to do it.  Just wondering if it's even practical to try and do it.  Thanks.

 

PhilWill

Depends on your level of electrical and plumbing skills.

 

The warranty is void on a self install, as most failures are caused by bad installation.  The plumbers tend to stuff up the electrical side of the install and the auto-electricians stuff up the plumbing.

 

If you can do both correctly you should be fine...

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8 minutes ago, PhilWill said:

Hello.

 

Has anyone had any experience with installing an Eberspracher central heating system by themself on their boat?  Quite expensive to hire someone to do it.  Just wondering if it's even practical to try and do it.  Thanks.

 

PhilWill

 

Hi Phil, 

 

Whether or not it is practical is entirely dependent on your own skillset. Plenty here have done in including me and its not that hard, but the skills are quite diverse. Read the manual to see what is involved (google for it). Only you can say if you are capable.

 

 

 

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