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Heating oil, kerosene urgent info needed


bigcol

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Paraffin is wonderful stuff. It makes your oil lanps and heaters work, it is a wonderful penetrating liquid for freeing off seized mechanisms, freeing rusty locks, cleaning and sanitizing furniture. Polishing up flat car paintwork. Cleaning and lubricating bike chains. Extra refined liquid paraffin medicine to cure bowel troubles. You'd be surprised how much paraffin is contained in the mixture of  the expensive, fancy so called lubricating aerosols.  Paraffin is wonderful.

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9 hours ago, OldGoat said:

 

IME Rayburn and (smaller) Aga units use a vaporising unit  and those only use kerosene (unless somebody corrects me, so I was surprised when folks on here started talking about diesel / gas oil.

 

 

Kabola Old Dutch heaters are gravity fed, vaporizing pot units, but they run on diesel not kerosene. 

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8 hours ago, bigcol said:

Hi there 

the coker is being placed alongside a bulkhead the flue out let carry’s into a 90, straight up then another 90 towards the outer wall, into the fan box fixed to the out wall,of the barge.

by your question, I’m thinking that you may know somthing I don’t.?

 

col

It was the external flue fan box, I was wondering if you were able to change it to something internal with a skin fitting so it didn’t look unsightly.

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4 hours ago, jenevers said:

Kabola Old Dutch heaters are gravity fed, vaporizing pot units, but they run on diesel not kerosene. 

They can run on either but need the regulator adjusting to suit the fuel for optimum performance.

Simply using kerosene instead of gas oil results in slight overfuelling.

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9 hours ago, bizzard said:

Paraffin is wonderful stuff. It makes your oil lanps and heaters work, it is a wonderful penetrating liquid for freeing off seized mechanisms, freeing rusty locks, cleaning and sanitizing furniture. Polishing up flat car paintwork. Cleaning and lubricating bike chains. Extra refined liquid paraffin medicine to cure bowel troubles. You'd be surprised how much paraffin is contained in the mixture of  the expensive, fancy so called lubricating aerosols.  Paraffin is wonderful.

I shouldn't rise to it - I value your humorous posts.

However, for the uninitiated "paraffin" is a generic term running from the tank washing residual carp that the oil companies sell as heating oil to the highly refined stuff that used to be sold to make you poo.

I made the mistake of washing good quality paint brushes in heating oil once - and once only....

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3 hours ago, Robbo said:

It was the external flue fan box, I was wondering if you were able to change it to something internal with a skin fitting so it didn’t look unsightly.

Hi Robo. I had to buy a new fan, and yes the box is unsightly and big.

i had a guy here cut  it down by a 3rd, everything is bolted in and looks a lot better than before.

i did a lot of investigating re the fan and box anyway, soooo expensive so this was the only option left to me.

smaller box, you can buy smaller boxes £300 plus for not a lot, the fan cost a lot on it’s own.

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21 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not when one is accurately setting up the CO2 on an oil burner, it isn't!

White diesel is the same viscosity as red diesel AIUI. Heating oil and kerosene are significantly thicker. 

I'd have thought it was worthwhile setting up the Rayburn to run on red diesel anyway, given its ease of availability on the cut compared to kerosene. 

Hi Mike

before I ring Rayburn 

 

are we we saying that I could have it set up for red diesel?  No difference to the Rayburn, just the setting up, but easily got at canal marinas etc.

also heating oil is a lot cheaper isn’t it? 

I will have a eberspacher as well, so was going to connect both to the heating fuel tank.

is this use, that’s its  all down to having it set up to the chosen fuel.

 

thanks in advance

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2 hours ago, bigcol said:

Hi Mike

before I ring Rayburn 

 

are we we saying that I could have it set up for red diesel?  No difference to the Rayburn, just the setting up, but easily got at canal marinas etc.

also heating oil is a lot cheaper isn’t it? 

I will have a eberspacher as well, so was going to connect both to the heating fuel tank.

is this use, that’s its  all down to having it set up to the chosen fuel.

 

thanks in advance

Butting in here - so before I get shot down, the Rayburn stoves only use vaporising oils - http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/raytech/fuels.htm and they specifically use kerosene. Gas oil "doesn't vaporise" that's why you need a pressure jet type burner such as the Ebbersplutter / Mikuni etc, so it looks like you're stuck with two fuel types

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2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Butting in here - so before I get shot down, the Rayburn stoves only use vaporising oils - http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/raytech/fuels.htm and they specifically use kerosene. Gas oil "doesn't vaporise" that's why you need a pressure jet type burner such as the Ebbersplutter / Mikuni etc, so it looks like you're stuck with two fuel types

The Rayburn XT the OP has is a pressure jet type! (X2 as it has two burners, one for the oven and one for central heating)

Edited by Robbo
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8 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The Rayburn XT the OP has is a pressure jet type! (X2 as it has two burners, one for the oven and one for central heating)

No it doesn’t have central heating.

were having the oven just for cooking, and heating the room it’s in.

where do I find out what type burner it has please?

 

col

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Refer to my earlier post. The Manufacturers Instructions will specify 28 sec heating oil. To run small burners on 35 sec (red or white diesel), You would need to incorporate a preheater in the nozzle assembly and the Rayburn burner would not lend itself to that. Also, current regulations preclude the use of 35 sec oil on low discharge flues and your powerflue falls into this category. The higher flue temperature of 35 sec oil would probably make your expensive flue fan fail in a relatively short space of time. Finally, your Rayburn commissioning engineer will be commissioning in relation to building regs, and this would be an instance where M.I's would dictate the terms, so technically he shouldn't commission the uniton 35 sec. You may have some difficulty with your modification to the flue box in this regard.

I am a registered oil fired technician, so I do know what I'm talking about.

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

They can run on either but need the regulator adjusting to suit the fuel for optimum performance.

Simply using kerosene instead of gas oil results in slight overfuelling.

Using gas oil instead of kerosene results in overfiring for the same input.

The main problem using diesel in a vaporiser is that the temperature at which the fuel vaporises is much higher than with kerosene, so without optimum flue conditions and combustion air supply, the flame is dirty and fails more readily. The service interval for 35 sec is also more frequent. Also, the Aga, Rayburn, and oilwarm concentric ring burners are unsuitable for diesel fuel because the flame is too fragmented to maintain the burner temperature as in a pot.

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17 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The Rayburn XT the OP has is a pressure jet type! (X2 as it has two burners, one for the oven and one for central heating)

Oh Poo- while you were posting, I looked at my link and saw the XT - as you say, pressure jet - so I wonder why It couldn't use gas oil? Probably 'cos it's dirtier than Kero: Edit - seeing Ex Brummie's post above,  it all cones down to the flue temperature.

Contrarywise I seem to recall somewhere - somebody running an eber on kerosene Aha! somebody is (was) -

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=130202  - so that answers one question. Of course BigCol wouldn't be able to claim 60/40 anymore...

Edited by OldGoat
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16 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Butting in here - so before I get shot down, the Rayburn stoves only use vaporising oils - http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/raytech/fuels.htm and they specifically use kerosene. Gas oil "doesn't vaporise" that's why you need a pressure jet type burner such as the Ebbersplutter / Mikuni etc, so it looks like you're stuck with two fuel types

The drip fed stoves like Dickinson, Reflex and Kabola are all vaporising and use diesel which is Gas oil.

7 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Oh Poo- while you were posting, I looked at my ling and saw the XT - as you say, pressure jet - so I wonder why It couldn't use gas oil? Probably 'cos it's dirtier than Kero:

Not aimed at boats where diesel is more common place is probably the main reason.   The heritage stove (similar aga style) does/can use diesel.

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11 minutes ago, bigcol said:

No it doesn’t have central heating.

were having the oven just for cooking, and heating the room it’s in.

where do I find out what type burner it has please?

 

col

It's the same burner as the 400 series.   This site is useful for all techie stuff related; http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/raytech/default.htm

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21 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Does that clarify anything??

Quite a bit... but still leaves me puzzled....for the purpose of this OP - getting a small amount of oil to test the heater - are the various alternative 'oils' available that have been mentioned by others  interchangeable in a heating device.

Obviously the 'tank' can be filled with any oil, or any liquid come to that, but equally obviously some would not work - so assuming a 'fuel' oil is used  - what would happen to it (the wrong one) in the heater?

 

 

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On 03/04/2018 at 13:25, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

White diesel is the same viscosity as red diesel AIUI. Heating oil and kerosene are significantly thicker. 

 

No it's not .  Kero is 28sec & diesel is 35sec. These figures represent the time taken to go through a viscosity cup.

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9 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Quite a bit... but still leaves me puzzled....for the purpose of this OP - getting a small amount of oil to test the heater - are the various alternative 'oils' available that have been mentioned by others  interchangeable in a heating device.

Obviously the 'tank' can be filled with any oil, or any liquid come to that, but equally obviously some would not work - so assuming a 'fuel' oil is used  - what would happen to it (the wrong one) in the heater?

 

 

What part of 28 sec heating oil is not to be understood?

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29 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Quite a bit... but still leaves me puzzled....for the purpose of this OP - getting a small amount of oil to test the heater - are the various alternative 'oils' available that have been mentioned by others  interchangeable in a heating device.

Obviously the 'tank' can be filled with any oil, or any liquid come to that, but equally obviously some would not work - so assuming a 'fuel' oil is used  - what would happen to it (the wrong one) in the heater?

 

 

I'm guessing that Bigcol wants to install and test the boiler cooker before he gets a storage tank. The installer has indicated that a small quantity  of oil will suffice - sufficient to heat the equipment up and calibrate the burner airflow.

At that point the whole thread goes sideways into the whys and wherefores of which fuel and so on leaving everyone and not the least Col himself. I hope he has managed to scrape together some useful suggestions...

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3 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

I'm guessing that Bigcol wants to install and test the boiler cooker before he gets a storage tank. The installer has indicated that a small quantity  of oil will suffice - sufficient to heat the equipment up and calibrate the burner airflow.

At that point the whole thread goes sideways into the whys and wherefores of which fuel and so on leaving everyone and not the least Col himself. I hope he has managed to scrape together some useful suggestions...

Yep. The poor sod only asked where he could buy 28 sec oil in small quantities. It appears that he’s now found a supplier. 

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On 03/04/2018 at 12:22, GRLMK38 said:

About 35 minutes from MK .... http://www.conquestoil.co.uk/domestic/kerobox.htm

Lol. Yes emailed this company many thanks GRLMK38 they’ve rang me back and I’m all sorted.

ive had a insight into different oils etc.

and kerosine/heating oil is what is needed, and gone through what’s been discussed, and now to get it delivered.

wish us luck

 

and thankyou 

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41 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Lol. Yes emailed this company many thanks GRLMK38 they’ve rang me back and I’m all sorted.

ive had a insight into different oils etc.

and kerosine/heating oil is what is needed, and gone through what’s been discussed, and now to get it delivered.

wish us luck

 

and thankyou 

Great news.. you will also find them competitive for bulk as they check their prices against the likes of Boiler Juice etc.  Good luck and check the fire escape is not locked!

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