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Window Frames -Screw em or screw em?


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5 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I see you are using Copperslip on the threads. I am assuming your window frames are aluminium, just be aware that copper and aluminium together are a recipe for bad corrosion. Make sure the Copperslip is just on the threads and not in contact with the aluminium.

Thanks. Noted for the other 11

2 minutes ago, 70liveaboard said:

Itchy..

 

What is the timber on the inside, holding the window, or surrounding it ? is it all softwood ?

Softwood battens with hardwood trim/surrounds.

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Thanks. Noted for the other 11

Softwood battens with hardwood trim/surrounds.

The reason why you got 19yrs out of the first, which is very impressive btw, is because you did a very good job with the tappers. I'd go that route. Softwood, will not be a good option, because of the condensation (probably).

Just imo. :)

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Just now, 70liveaboard said:

The reason why you got 19yrs out of the first, which is very impressive btw, is because you did a very good job with the tappers. I'd go that route. Softwood, will not be a good option, because of the condensation (probably).

Just imo. :)

Thanks, though I have no intention of changing the softwood battens unless I have too. They appear to be in quite good condition after 20 years.

 

My reason for drilling and tapping is that,although a bigger job, if I ever need to get them out again it should be much easier.In another twenty years I will be in my 60's and probably not fancy doing it.:)

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4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Thanks, though I have no intention of changing the softwood battens unless I have too. They appear to be in quite good condition after 20 years.

 

My reason for drilling and tapping is that,although a bigger job, if I ever need to get them out again it should be much easier.In another twenty years I will be in my 60's and probably not fancy doing it.:)

Yes, I wasn't thinking of you changing the battens, just not using them as a fix.

 

Edit: I always thought using wbp ply as inner liners was a good idea. Can fasten through into that with confidence. But as with any timber, once the hole is screwed, its there. If you understand what I mean. ;)

Edited by 70liveaboard
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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Not sure I understand what you are saying?

Using as a fixing point for a screw. Great inside, not really for windows, where the softwood is up against the steel shell inside. That's all I meant. ;)

Edited by 70liveaboard
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Just now, 70liveaboard said:

Using as a fixing point for a screw. Great inside, not really for windows. That's all I meant. ;)

Ah, ok got you. The tapped holes should be a major improvement, shame I didn't do it 20 years ago!:)

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16 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I managed to get one window done today (not without minor problems)

 

1. Drilled and tapped holes . Check

2. Got appropriate SS machine screws.Check (Thanks Bee/Wotever).

3. Drilled new holes to secure the battens.Check. (Thanks Tony b)

4. Tap broke.Check

5. Started to rain . Check

6. Swore a lot and removed broken tap. Check.

7. Drilled and tapped remaining holes. Check

8. Applied butyl rubber tape. Check

9. Removed "a piece" of rubber to take screw (using a leather punch).Check

10. Applied copperslip to screws.Check (Thanks Jen)

11. Screwed frame to cabin. Check.

12.Glass of wine . Check

 

Think I need to purchase a quality tap set for next windows, not a cheap Chinese chocolate one.

 

11 more to do. Check

I've added this to my previous post for your information :-   Also stainless and aluminium together is also very bad for corrosion. I would suggest that brass machine screws would be best. 

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4 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I've added this to my previous post for your information :-   Also stainless and aluminium together is also very bad for corrosion. I would suggest that brass machine screws would be best. 

Thanks

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3 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I've added this to my previous post for your information :-   Also stainless and aluminium together is also very bad for corrosion. I would suggest that brass machine screws would be best. 

I'm puzzled by that. 7 of my 9 aluminium framed windows are secured by SS machine screws tapped into the steel cabin side and after 8 years unscrew easily.  The remaining 2 were done the same but the screws were greased in the hope of preventing corrosion and some of them have seized solid, mostly the top row in both cases.

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1 minute ago, system 4-50 said:

I'm puzzled by that. 7 of my 9 aluminium framed windows are secured by SS machine screws tapped into the steel cabin side and after 8 years unscrew easily.  The remaining 2 were done the same but the screws were greased in the hope of preventing corrosion and some of them have seized solid, mostly the top row in both cases.

Nothing wrong with stainless and mild steel, the problem is stainless in direct contact with aluminium. 

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17 hours ago, Flyboy said:

I see you are using Copperslip on the threads. I am assuming your window frames are aluminium, just be aware that copper and aluminium together are a recipe for bad corrosion. Make sure the Copperslip is just on the threads and not in contact with the aluminium.

Also stainless and aluminium together is also very bad for corrosion. I would suggest that brass machine screws would be best.

Surely brass and aluminium is as bad as copper and aluminium?

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1 hour ago, Chris G said:

Surely brass and aluminium is as bad as copper and aluminium?

No, not anywhere near as bad  because of its zinc content.

All metals have a property called nobility.It is a measure of a metals resistance to corrosion when it contact with another metal. A greater relative difference in nobility between the two metals in contact indicates a greater corrosion potential. The table below ranks the most common metals used in increasing nobility, called the galvanic number.

1.    Aluminium

2.    Zinc

3.   Steel

4.   Iron

5.  Stainless Steel  - active

6.   Tin

7.   Lead

8.   Copper

9. Stainless steel -passive

 

When dissimilar metals are in contact with one another in the presence of an electrolyte, galvanic action occurs, resulting in the deteriation of the metal with the lower galvanic number. The electrolyte may be rain water or moisture from the air containing enough acid to cause it to actas an electrolyte.

Since copper has one of the highest galvanic numbers or nobility of the active metals, it will not be harmed by contact with any of them. It will however, cause corrosion of the other metals if in direct contact. The solution is to prevent such direct contact with the use of separating materials, such as specific paints or gaskets.

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  • 10 months later...

Well, like the arrival of spring,another of our windows has sprung a leak. I screwed and tapped another 18 holes yesterday....better than a game of golf, and another round today.

 

At this rate I should have the whole lot drilled and tapped and  rebedded by 2021.

 

Last years effort proved successful though, so I will continue with the Butyl rubber strip.

 

That is all.

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24 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Well, like the arrival of spring,another of our windows has sprung a leak. I screwed and tapped another 18 holes yesterday....better than a game of golf, and another round today.

 

At this rate I should have the whole lot drilled and tapped and  rebedded by 2021.

 

Last years effort proved successful though, so I will continue with the Butyl rubber strip.

 

That is all.

I also investigated butyl rubber strip on some brass portholes. It worked ok...it was water tight!!, but was a bit messy and tedious when I had to take one out again. Also its so sticky that it pulled some paint off. And It does not set so I found that I needed to tighten the bolts after a few months, would be a bugger if you've used pop rivets  ?   I have now tried making gaskets out of neoprene sheet and this has also worked well though I did need to get the bolts good and tight to compress it enough to seal. Should be a whole lot easier to get apart in future.

 

.............Dave

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Just now, dmr said:

I also investigated butyl rubber strip on some brass portholes. It worked ok...it was water tight!!, but was a bit messy and tedious when I had to take one out again. Also its so sticky that it pulled some paint off. And It does not set so I found that I needed to tighten the bolts after a few months, would be a bugger if you've used pop rivets  ?   I have now tried making gaskets out of neoprene sheet and this has also worked well though I did need to get the bolts good and tight to compress it enough to seal. Should be a whole lot easier to get apart in future.

 

.............Dave

Interesting. I did consider neoprene, but dismissed it for no good reason.I have just bought another roll of Butyl rubber, or would have given it a go. Hopefully I won't have to take them out for another 30 years, by which time it will probably be someone elses problem (If she still floats).

 

I will go a nip up the two I did last year.Thanks for the tip.

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