how much to replate a narrowboat...?

[X Alan W]

On 3/27/2018 at 20:19, dmr said:

Can't say for sure. The K&A has a fair few but you could diagonal as long as you don't share with another long boat. There's a couple in Birmingham that might give trouble, but there are alternative routes, one on the North Stratford might be tight, The Stratford Avon would be a nightmare. Several canals are listed as 70 foot but most will take a slightly longer boat, you don't really know the problem locks till you have got stuck in one.

.............Dave

Has the Stratford had changes in lock size since it's reopening as at that time a good number of 71'6" Big GU size made it to Stratford. I made it to Stratford in 71&72 with a "Josher Motor 70'6"& a Star class Woolwich butty again at least 70'6" the depth of water was the problem not length /width of the locks OK there may be locks the fenders have to be lifted but other than that no problems passing through locks at that time

[Neil Smith]

The Butty seems the best deal, but only If you can replace it if turns out to be scrap. You will need to get it out of the water to have the hull checked before doing any work inside.

Neil

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

"The boat has a historic right to this mooring, and it will be automatically assigned to the new owner"

I'm struggling a bit with this part of the marketing stuff. If "the boat" has the historic right, then disposing of the boat with the right, and replacing it with a different boat, seemingly with no right, does not seem a sensible thing to do.

If it is possible to retain the right, but put a new boat on the mooring, then it is not the boat that has the historic right, but the owner of the boat that happens to be on the mooring, but even that doesn't make sense. Thus, it's hard to see a boat having a legal right to a residential mooring, and it would be interesting to see the documentation that granted the right, when, by whom, and to whom, or to what, and the mechanism for succession.

 

I think you might becbeing a little obtuse here. ‘The boat has a historic right’ might easily be shorthand for “the residential mooring lease is transferable by right to any new owner of the boat on the mooring”.

This is the position with the A21 moorings as I understand it. I’m not so sure if the leaseholder of an A21 mooring has the right to change the boat, but I suspect they do. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman
Clarity

[Wittenham]

7 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

The Butty seems the best deal, but only If you can replace it if turns out to be scrap. You will need to get it out of the water to have the hull checked before doing any work inside.

Neil

Thanks, and I agree.  Fewer drug dealers walking by, too.  Trying to picture how to get a 70 foot ?? ton unpowered steel boat through the locks to a marina.  Lots of ropes and a friendly powered boat, I expect.  Perhaps the local canoe club fancies a challenge....

[Neil Smith]

8 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Thanks, and I agree.  Fewer drug dealers walking by, too.  Trying to picture how to get a 70 foot ?? ton unpowered steel boat through the locks to a marina.  Lots of ropes and a friendly powered boat, I expect.  Perhaps the local canoe club fancies a challenge....

You could ask the local marina for a tow, or ask on here if anyone can help near you. and at that price I would just buy it and not bother with a survey, I assume it has a bss cert.

Neil

[Tumshie]

23 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Thanks, and I agree.  Fewer drug dealers walking by, too.  Trying to picture how to get a 70 foot ?? ton unpowered steel boat through the locks to a marina.  Lots of ropes and a friendly powered boat, I expect.  Perhaps the local canoe club fancies a challenge....

The Chesterfield Canal Trust are having a sponsored boat pull - some time in April I think - you could get some practice in with them. 

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

You could ask the local marina for a tow, or ask on here if anyone can help near you. and at that price I would just buy it and not bother with a survey, I assume it has a bss cert.

Neil

 

My opinion too. A residential mooring in Oxford for £37k? Staggering bargain. Gift horse and all that, getting picky about the boat. 

This mooring really is priced to sell. I’m mean boat. 

[Wittenham]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

My opinion too. A residential mooring in Oxford for £37k? Staggering bargain. Gift horse and all that, getting picky about the boat. 

thanks all, and no love for the central oxford location?  Price is a bit... but comes with postal address, phone line, electricity, access to a washing machine and dryer [and council tax...], right to buy a parking permit, very short stroll to central Oxford.

[Tam & Di]

On 27/03/2018 at 17:25, dmr said:

72 foot is very very big and almost no modern boats are made that big, 70 is the common maximum. If its old then its more likely only 71'6"" but this is still too big to fit into a few locks.

Looking at the ads I suspect that the stated lengths of 72' are just notional. "Full length" working boats were generally referred to as 72', but in reality few of them were, and it became simply a shorthand description of length.

[Lady M]

As it is a CRT mooring, perhaps the declared length includes fenders?

[Dave_P]

21 hours ago, Wittenham said:

the inside of the dartline was built out by someone with very little skill.  It has a car engine in it, paving stones for ballast, rusted out gauges, a little bit of polystyrene insulation, no 12V system, and 'interesting' levels of workmanship and finishing.  The sliding top doesn't, making for an interesting experience in case of fire.  I would expect to gut the interior and start over again.     If the hull is sound [and I can understand what the right price is for the mooring].

My boat has a van engine in it, polystyrene insulation and paving slabs for ballast.  Thankfully it has a 12v system too-  phew.  

Seriously, what kind of engine did you expect on a 30 something year old narrowboat, and what type of ballast?

 

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Wittenham said:

thanks all, and no love for the central oxford location?  Price is a bit... but comes with postal address, phone line, electricity, access to a washing machine and dryer [and council tax...], right to buy a parking permit, very short stroll to central Oxford.

Have a search for Agenda 21 on the interweb, last night I found an old BW mooring agreement and I think it said that part of the ethos of the 21's was to live a simple sustainable lifestyle without connection to mains electricity! It also said that the agreement can be terminated by BW at any time but usually won't be.

..............Dave

[pete harrison]

23 hours ago, Wittenham said:

oops, pasted in the same boat twice.  This is the other one:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559101

I am in conversation with the owner of this butty as I know it well, as well as its history - built in 1972 by John Pinder at Burton on Trent and gave me a living from 1979 to 1985 

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think you might becbeing a little obtuse here. ‘The boat has a historic right’ might easily be shorthand for “the residential mooring lease is transferable by right to any new owner of the boat on the mooring”.

This is the position with the A21 moorings as I understand it. I’m not so sure if the leaseholder of an A21 mooring has the right to change the boat, but I suspect they do. 

Not really... digging a little deeper, it seems that it is an annual agreement which can be terminated, but "probably wont be". So no actual long term right and an element of keeping your fingers crossed.

Given that the boat is effectively worth nothing, (or less than nothing), the asking price for the mooring is £95k for a 1 year lease renewable at the discretion of the freeholder. I agree that there is a history of renewals but, if that was the deal with respect to leasehold flats, the media would get hold of it and be up in arms.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Not really... digging a little deeper, it seems that it is an annual agreement which can be terminated, but "probably wont be". So no actual long term right and an element of keeping your fingers crossed.

Given that the boat is effectively worth nothing, (or less than nothing), the asking price for the mooring is £95k for a 1 year lease renewable at the discretion of the freeholder. I agree that there is a history of renewals but, if that was the deal with respect to leasehold flats, the media would get hold of it and be up in arms.

 

Blimey!

In which case the value of the mooring and the premium worth paying is entirely dependent on your attitude to risk. The price being asked however is £37k. Did you investigate the £95k boat rather then the £37k one? Do we know where the £95k boat is moored? Is it on an oxford A21 mooring too?

If so, TWO A21 moorings up for sale at the same time is unheard of!

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

TWO A21 moorings up for sale at the same time is unheard of!

But one is for sale by a Scottish lady whose husband has just died - it is not available for viewing as it is held in a 'bonded warehouse' but you will get free delivery if you Western Union the amount today.

[Wittenham]

43 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Blimey!

In which case the value of the mooring and the premium worth paying is entirely dependent on your attitude to risk. The price being asked however is £37k. Did you investigate the £95k boat rather then the £37k one? Do we know where the £95k boat is moored? Is it on an oxford A21 mooring too?

If so, TWO A21 moorings up for sale at the same time is unheard of!

The 95K one is in central Oxford, a stones throw from the railway station. 37K is A21, near Wolvercite. 

[Tumshie]

24 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

The 95K one is in central Oxford, a stones throw from the railway station. 37K is A21, near Wolvercite. 

In the ad for the £95k boat it says - The boat has a historic right to this mooring, and it will be automatically assigned to the new owner. - does that not mean that it's a A21 mooring too?

Wolvercote?

Edited March 29, 2018 by Tumshie

[Wittenham]

42 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

In the ad for the £95k boat it says - The boat has a historic right to this mooring, and it will be automatically assigned to the new owner. - does that not mean that it's a A21 mooring too?

Wolvercote?

Perhaps just my lack of understanding.... I think of the 95K one as being at Castle Mill Stream, a couple hundred metres from George Street in central Oxford.  I think of the 37K one as being A21, just north of the Godstow Road in, uh, Wolvercote [a tiny place on the northwest outskirts of Oxford].  Maybe both areas are called Agenda 21, but they are several kilometres apart.

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Perhaps just my lack of understanding.... I think of the 95K one as being at Castle Mill Stream, a couple hundred metres from George Street in central Oxford.  I think of the 37K one as being A21, just north of the Godstow Road in, uh, Wolvercote [a tiny place on the northwest outskirts of Oxford].  Maybe both areas are called Agenda 21, but they are several kilometres apart.

Ah. The castle mill stream definitely isn’t A21. Until recently the right to moor there was hotly disputed. Presumably now it has been sorted out. Any comments about the status of A21 moorings will not apply to the castle mill mooring. The A21 legal situation is  clear and settled. 

[Tumshie]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

If so, TWO A21 moorings up for sale at the same time is unheard of!

All the knowledgeable people were confusing me on the A21 thing - being as am a bear of very little brain - I am trying to keep up.

Depending on the road noise from the by pass I think I would prefer the Wolvercote one - which is handy cos it's cheeper - I'd have thought public transport would be okay round there, do you really want to be right by the train station? is it worth all the extra money? Assuming the worst and that both boats might need over plating (if they really do) they both do still need to be made a bit more homely - so how are your DIY skills? Getting a tow to a boat yard will probably be less hassle than you think once you get to know people round about. 

Have you spent any time walking along the areas of canal were you might be moored up? If I was thinking about buying one of these boats I would go and hang out no the towpath for a bit - Wolvercote is is quite green, thats always a plus for me.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

being as am a bear of very little brain

 

I thought you were a potato bogle...

[Tumshie]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I thought you were a potato bogle...

I am many things - but mostly I'm just a bit of a pest.

And I know you know I'm not a Tattie Bogle!

Edited March 29, 2018 by Tumshie
cos of my little brain!

[MtB]

A tumshie weevil!! 

[Tumshie]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

A tumshie weevil!!