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how much to replate a narrowboat...?


Wittenham

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11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unfortunately more and more folks see owning a boat as a cheap option, carefree, no rules, & having a wonderful outlook/view - just a floating flat. They do not realise that living on a boat is almost a full time job and to survive you need to enjoy your 'work'.

Having to come home to a full toilet, empty water tank, no coal and flat batteries on a dark, cold Winters evening is beyond their comprehension until it ACTUALLY HAPPENS 

Firstly, thanks for all the answers, and let me approach this question from a different angle.  It is not about a cheap living option, and I do have lots of experience of unconventional [by Western standards] of living arrangements.  [you mean the toilet is actually inside and it hardly ever snows and you can even get electricity?  What luxury!].  I am attracted to living on a boat because of the downsizing, simplifying life, discarding the unneeded things,  and living that much closer to nature [well, as close to nature as one can get on this crowded island whilst still enjoying the many wonderful things that brought me and keep me here].  I have read all the magazines on the shelf at WH Smith [well, until the manager moved me along] and saw most of a program on TV about narrowboating, so i think i have got the gist of it, hardly looks difficult [lame joke warning...].

I have an option of trying to purchase one of two separate permanent residential moorings.  Both come with what might be charitably called a 'boat' in situ, but the value is all in the permanent mooring.  I am not attached at all to the wrecks that are in place, I can see the amount of internal work needed and can only guess at the state of the hull.  What is my best option?  Is there a market for wrecks or scrap?  Perhaps tow it to India and cut it up for recyling on the beach?  One of them does not even have an engine.  Do I factor in the cost of getting rid of the thing that is there and buying something usable, or do i repair it, or will someone actually fork out money for it and I go buy something more floatworthy?

I would not mind crusing the rivers and canals, but that is not a priority.  In other words, if the 'boat' [floating flat] did not have an engine, I would not mind.

thanks again, clearly lots of expertise on tap here.

 

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If you can get a real residential mooring, with security of tenure of some kind and any required panning permission, at a decent price in a decent location (not against a factory wall in a bad bit of brum) then go for it, it can only increase in value as more and more people want to move to the canals.

The magazines and TV programs tell you almost zero about actually living on a boat, they are forms of entertainment and sell aspirations rather than facts, get out and walk/cycle the towpaths and talk to liveaboard boaters.

A scrap boat can actually have negative value as it can cost more to remove it than its value as scrap metal. As long as it floats then paint the inside white and tow it down to London, you could make a fortune.:D

Sounds like you are the sort of person who might be at home on some parts of the canal system.

Any chance of a photo of the boat ?

...............Dave

 

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

[snip]

A scrap boat can actually have negative value as it can cost more to remove it than its value as scrap metal. As long as it floats then paint the inside white and tow it down to London, you could make a fortune.:D

[snip]

Any chance of a photo of the boat ?

...............Dave

 

Serious question:  what actually happens to boats when they are beyond economic repair?  Other than sell them to Londoners to be used for airBnB, that is...

re: the photos.... i am cringing slightly in anticipation of the comments on the [asking] price. 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533 

 

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9 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Serious question:  what actually happens to boats when they are beyond economic repair?  Other than sell them to Londoners to be used for airBnB, that is...

re: the photos.... i am cringing slightly in anticipation of the comments on the [asking] price. 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533 

 

Is this the boat you've been looking to buy? I comes with its own swan, what more could you want? :giggles:

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9 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Serious question:  what actually happens to boats when they are beyond economic repair?  Other than sell them to Londoners to be used for airBnB, that is...

re: the photos.... i am cringing slightly in anticipation of the comments on the [asking] price. 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533 

 

It would be worth spending a little time investigating this :

The boat has a historic right to this mooring, and it will be automatically assigned to the new owner. The mooring comes with mains electricity (on a meter), a phone line (and internet capability), a postal address, water tap, and Elsan facilities on the towpath (which include a communal washing machine + tumble dryer). An annual mooring fee is payable to the Canal & River Trust

I am not aware that C&RT have such things as 'historic rights moorings'

I'd suggest speaking with the C&RT moorings manager for the area and get their version of the moorings status

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13 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Serious question:  what actually happens to boats when they are beyond economic repair?  Other than sell them to Londoners to be used for airBnB, that is...

re: the photos.... i am cringing slightly in anticipation of the comments on the [asking] price. 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559533 

 

There is one like that near us.

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6 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Is this the boat you've been looking to buy? I comes with its own swan, what more could you want? :giggles:

oops, pasted in the same boat twice.  This is the other one:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=559101

 

5 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

The boat has the historic right to the mooring if i remember thse moorings were created early in the oxford problem. The boat may have the right but not subsiquent boats...

thanks, and all that will be figured out before money changes hands.  I have seen the letter from the CRT saying that it is all good [but will check that]

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Is this the Agenda21 moorings? They do have rights which other CRT towpath moorings don't have, but you would need to check just how transferable those rights are to a new owner, and whether you can put a new boat on the mooring. Also check out how much the mooring fee to CRT is. 

There is no way a 1986 Dartline grp-topped boat is worth anything like £95k - 20% of that is more like its value, so most of the asking price is a premium for the mooring. But it doesn't look to me like it is necessarily a scrapper. Boats like that can regularly be found on Ebay, and they do sell.

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I'm guessing the second boat is this one:


Promise Built by Hancock & Lane - Length : 21.33 metres ( 70 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.5 metres ( 1 foot 8 inches ). Metal hull N/A . Registered with Canal & River Trust number 62064 as an Unpowered Unpowered Craft.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

What is its history? There aren't many modern full length butties. Perhaps it started life as a hotel boat.

And I suspect the steel thicknesses are 25.4 x less than those quoted in the ad:

Steel hull and cabin (8" baseplate, 6" hull and 4" cabin to best of my knowledge).

 

 

 

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Is it GRP topped? I think the one near us is steel, but could be wrong (usualy am)

I can't be certain from the photos, but it has the characteristic shape of the grp Frobisher boats - low front cabin, sliding roof section, wooden handrails.

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I'm guessing the second boat is this one:


Promise Built by Hancock & Lane - Length : 21.33 metres ( 70 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.5 metres ( 1 foot 8 inches ). Metal hull N/A . Registered with Canal & River Trust number 62064 as an Unpowered Unpowered Craft.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

What is its history? There aren't many modern full length butties. Perhaps it started life as a hotel boat.

And I suspect the steel thicknesses are 25.4 x less than those quoted in the ad:

Steel hull and cabin (8" baseplate, 6" hull and 4" cabin to best of my knowledge).

i assumed it was built from an old battleship.

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14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

[snip]

There is no way a 1986 Dartline grp-topped boat is worth anything like £95k - 20% of that is more like its value, so most of the asking price is a premium for the mooring. But it doesn't look to me like it is necessarily a scrapper. Boats like that can regularly be found on Ebay, and they do sell.

the inside of the dartline was built out by someone with very little skill.  It has a car engine in it, paving stones for ballast, rusted out gauges, a little bit of polystyrene insulation, no 12V system, and 'interesting' levels of workmanship and finishing.  The sliding top doesn't, making for an interesting experience in case of fire.  I would expect to gut the interior and start over again.     If the hull is sound [and I can understand what the right price is for the mooring].

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1 minute ago, Wittenham said:

the inside of the dartline was built out by someone with very little skill.  It has a car engine in it, paving stones for ballast, rusted out gauges, a little bit of polystyrene insulation, no 12V system, and 'interesting' levels of workmanship and finishing.  The sliding top doesn't, making for an interesting experience in case of fire.  I would expect to gut the interior and start over again.     If the hull is sound [and I can understand what the right price is for the mooring].

Many boats, new and old, have paving stone ballast and polystyrene insulation was the norm when that boat was built.  Those grp sliding roofs were notorious for being leaky and drafty, so most have become fixed over the years.

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Many boats, new and old, have paving stone ballast and polystyrene insulation was the norm when that boat was built.  Those grp sliding roofs were notorious for being leaky and drafty, so most have become fixed over the years.

Thanks, and I didn't know that about ballast [actually, it might be easier to set out what I do know about narrowboats...].  I wasn't terribly surprised at the polystyrene, but the quality of the other bits did suggest quite an amateur level of fitout and an even lower level of regular maintenance.  I am doubting myself now, but I thought the top of the boat was steel!  Will have to look again. 

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5 hours ago, dmr said:

As long as it floats then paint the inside white and tow it down to London, you could make a fortune.:D

But don’t call it white. Call it ‘Floral Innocence’...

  • Haha 1
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Its hard to see exact quality from a photo, like estate agents, I reckon boat brokers have a special camera that makes things look better than they are, but that interior looks ok to me, have seen some much worse owner fitouts. Maybe you have looked at too many canal magazines where the fitouts are immaculate, but so sterile you probably couldn't live with it.

You need to find out if you could put a different boat on that mooring, I dunno how it works with agenda 21 boats but with old cars you could replace an old one with a new one as long some major components were original. You could get a new boat and transfer those lovely floorboards and the curtains  :D.

...............Dave

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One comment. The butty called 'Promise' is not photographed on its home residential mooring, I suspect.

None of the Agenda 21 moorings in Oxford look anything like as clean and tidy the place this boat is photgraphed in, IIRC. 

£37k strikes me as a screaming bargain for an Agend 21 mooring. I'm pretty sure the last one to sell was marketed for about £60k, with a scrapper of a boat on it, three or four years ago. 

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9 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its hard to see exact quality from a photo, like estate agents, I reckon boat brokers have a special camera that makes things look better than they are, but that interior looks ok to me, have seen some much worse owner fitouts. Maybe you have looked at too many canal magazines where the fitouts are immaculate, but so sterile you probably couldn't live with it.

 

...i was kidding about reading the magazines.  :)

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16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

One comment. The butty called 'Promise' is not photographed on its home residential mooring, I suspect.

None of the Agenda 21 moorings in Oxford look anything like as clean and tidy the place this boat is photgraphed in, IIRC. 

£37k strikes me as a screaming bargain for an Agend 21 mooring. I'm pretty sure the last one to sell was marketed for about £60k, with a scrapper of a boat on it, three or four years ago. 

The ad does sort of suggest that its right down the end beyond Isis lock, which is a bit lighter and tidier than most of the agenda 21's, but then again its also a bit more public down there. I assume those last few moorings really are part of agenda 21 and not just standard CaRT moorings??????, OP need to check this out very carefully!!!!

................Dave

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38 minutes ago, dmr said:

The ad does sort of suggest that its right down the end beyond Isis lock, which is a bit lighter and tidier than most of the agenda 21's, but then again its also a bit more public down there. I assume those last few moorings really are part of agenda 21 and not just standard CaRT moorings??????, OP need to check this out very carefully!!!!

................Dave

 

You mean the blind end that goes up to the old basin that is now a car park? Like you I don't think those are A21 moorings but even if the are, the bit of bank where the boat is photo'd is nothing like that area. There is a lock in the photo to start with which can't possibly be Isis lock.

There are however two separate sections of A21 moorings, the more northerly stretch having a lock near the Godstow Road bridge which is a possible candidate.

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12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

There are however two separate sections of A21 moorings, the more northerly stretch having a lock near the Godstow Road bridge which is a possible candidate.

You are correct, it is north of the Godstow Road bridge. 

Anyone have a view on whether I should budget to repair the boat, or budget to dispose of it?  Do boats ever get to the point where they need to be scrapped?  If so, what happens?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

You are correct, it is north of the Godstow Road bridge. 

Anyone have a view on whether I should budget to repair the boat, or budget to dispose of it?  Do boats ever get to the point where they need to be scrapped?  If so, what happens?

 

 

Dunno, yes they must get scrapped but I suspect it currently happens surprisingly infrequently. Maybe in a few more years when some old Springers really do get to the end of their life it might happen a bit more. Everything on the canal is a cottage industry so I suspect a boatyard just lifts them out and slowly cuts them up after removing anything that might have value. I also suspect that a fair few get lifted out and stored on land as long term "project boats" that will never actually go back into the water.

As to what you budget for, I can't help, too many unknowns. The big one is the condition of the boat (it might be solid), but also your current financial situation and likely future financial situation, your DIY skills and fondness for big DIY projects, if you have a desire to keep old things alive, and whether or not you actually like the current boat.  Restoring the current boat is probably not the best long term investment.

...........Dave

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"The boat has a historic right to this mooring, and it will be automatically assigned to the new owner"

I'm struggling a bit with this part of the marketing stuff. If "the boat" has the historic right, then disposing of the boat with the right, and replacing it with a different boat, seemingly with no right, does not seem a sensible thing to do.

If it is possible to retain the right, but put a new boat on the mooring, then it is not the boat that has the historic right, but the owner of the boat that happens to be on the mooring, but even that doesn't make sense. Thus, it's hard to see a boat having a legal right to a residential mooring, and it would be interesting to see the documentation that granted the right, when, by whom, and to whom, or to what, and the mechanism for succession.

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