Blueprint for my old Harborough

[Mslondon]

We know nothing about the history of our canal boat except it is a Harborough from the 80s. We desperately want to try and find blueprints which might help us. We think we have water under the cabin but trying to find a place to make inspection holes has resulted in us finding steel just below the floorboards stopping any further inroads 

The steel makes no sense to us though nor to a few people we’ve spoken to. Any ideas what it is and where we could try to drill a new hole?

also half way down the boat in the cabin we have a steel ‘wedge’ either side under the gunnels directly opposite each other, is this normal? Is it an indication of the boat having been lengthened in the past?

 

[rusty69]

Don't know about Harborough boats,but until someone sensible comes aIong I wonder if its steel ballast or a keelson you have found.

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, Mslondon said:

We know nothing about the history of our canal boat except it is a Harborough from the 80s. We desperately want to try and find blueprints which might help us. We think we have water under the cabin but trying to find a place to make inspection holes has resulted in us finding steel just below the floorboards stopping any further inroads 

The steel makes no sense to us though nor to a few people we’ve spoken to. Any ideas what it is and where we could try to drill a new hole?

also half way down the boat in the cabin we have a steel ‘wedge’ either side under the gunnels directly opposite each other, is this normal? Is it an indication of the boat having been lengthened in the past?

 

Have you just hit the steel bearers the plywood floor sits on?  They are usually around 16" - 24" apart, and if you have tried to make the hole as far back as possible you might have hit one.

Using a stud finder/ metal detector tool set to low sensitivity should let you find them without disturbing the floor, then make a hole where they aren't! 

The usual place if you can get to it is about 3 or 4 inches forward of the engine bulkhead.  On mine I made the last section of floor removable like a trapdoor, supported on the last bearer and the one in front of it rather than mess about with a small hole.

If your boat has (or once had) a fibreglass top, the wedges under the gunwales will be there to stop the metal hull sides spreading out.  A steel top boat doesn't need these as the cabin top holds the sides together.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Don't know about Harborough boats,but until someone sensible comes aIong I wonder if its steel ballast or a keelson you have found.

I'm sensible......will I do? Havent a clue about Harboroughs though. What you really need is someone clever like Biscuits. Cholocate ones are nicest.

[X Alan W]

Is your boat a H with the high bow? If yes ISTR the were wet bilge  (Stand corrected if wrong) & as said the wedges were fitted to GRP top boats to stop the sides flexing Thinner plate was used back then in the construction

[bizzard]

You say 1980's. Does it have a steel or grp top? GRP topped ones have a wet bilge, water flows from front to rear engine bilge to be pumped out there. Shower drained into rear engine bilge too, to be pumped out by bilge pump.  Is the front door step more or less level with the front well floor, or a small step up? Steel topped ones are probably dry bilge, though I'm uncertain.  Is the engine a Lister SR2 or3 ?

[Keeping Up]

Yes, all the early Harboroughs, with a GRP top, had a wet bilge. The rainwater from the front cockpit area runs down below the floor to the stern, where the bilge pump can pump it overboard. The give-away is that the cockpit floor is below the canal water-level so that's the only way it can drain away.On many (ours included) the bathroom basin and shower waste also emptied into the under-floor space, to run to the stern and be pumped overboard.

As has been said, the steel "wedges" were there to provide hull stiffness.

Ours was much earlier than yours, see details here, but the principles were the same

[philjw]

I had an Arcrite Fernie built as a sailaway in 1983. These were very similar in design to the Harborough hulls. As has been said earlier this had floor bearers constructed from thinish steel folded in right angles. The baseplate was fitted with angle with its thin edge down to take paving slab ballast. It had a wet bilge.

What makes you think that you have standing water in the bilge?

[Mslondon]

Thanks for all the replies. Pretty certain the roof is steel despite the wedges, is it likely someone replaced the roof at some point? 

The engine sits outside the cabin space and is level with the floorboards. It’s a vetus I think 

the engine bilge is dry - where we drilled the holes were about 80cm apart along the length of the boat in the kitchen and steel below both. Should we drill below the back steps? That would be just in front of where the engine sits 

We have started to hear water sloshing about underneath our feet (not the canal!) 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Mslondon said:

Thanks for all the replies. Pretty certain the roof is steel despite the wedges, is it likely someone replaced the roof at some point? 

The engine sits outside the cabin space and is level with the floorboards. It’s a vetus I think 

the engine bilge is dry - where we drilled the holes were about 80cm apart along the length of the boat in the kitchen and steel below both. Should we drill below the back steps? That would be just in front of where the engine sits 

We have started to hear water sloshing about underneath our feet (not the canal!) 

It may be worth incorporating a depth-stop onto your drill.

Don't ask why I suggest this (yes I really did !!!!!)

[carlt]

The only time I would drill a hole in a Harborough Marine floorboard would be after I'd lifted it and it was sat on a bench.

Edited: Crossed post with Alan.

Edited March 27, 2018 by carlt

[Mslondon]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It may be worth incorporating a depth-stop onto your drill.

Don't ask why I suggest this (yes I really did !!!!!)

Yeah we measured the floorboard depth from an inspection hole up front to make sure we didn’t do a bad thing 

[TheBiscuits]

13 minutes ago, Mslondon said:

Thanks for all the replies. Pretty certain the roof is steel despite the wedges, is it likely someone replaced the roof at some point? 

The engine sits outside the cabin space and is level with the floorboards. It’s a vetus I think 

the engine bilge is dry - where we drilled the holes were about 80cm apart along the length of the boat in the kitchen and steel below both. Should we drill below the back steps? That would be just in front of where the engine sits 

We have started to hear water sloshing about underneath our feet (not the canal!) 

If it used to have a GRP top, quite likely on a 1980's boat.  The join between the fibreglass and the steel always leaks at some point.

Cabin bilge inspection holes are usually as far back as you can get, as boats usually trim nose up and any water runs to the back of the boat.  You can have others forward if you want them, but if you are trying to get water out you need the hole at the back of the cabin.

If you could post a couple of pictures of the front deck water drains and the bulkhead forward of the engine (in case there is an obvious patched-up hole) we might be able to help more. 

[philjw]

There will be a bulkhead in front of the engine i.e. where the cabin ends.  Can you see if there is a gap between the hull side and the bulkhead on both sides of the boat.  If there is then water should not be trapped under the cabin.

[Mslondon]

I’ll try and sort some pictures out 

[RLWP]

8 minutes ago, Mslondon said:

I’ll try and sort some pictures out 

What is the front cockpit like? If it goes right down to the bottom of the boat you probably have a wet cabin bilge. You could also check to see where your shower and sink drain to

[bizzard]

And no scuppers on a wet bilge boat.

[gazmataz]

Hi,

I also live on this boat.

The front cockpit is above the floor level and it's got drainage holes cut in the bow on either sides so the rain water is meant to drain straight off the deck. I just googled what a scupper was after Bizzard posted and that's what is draining the front deck. The shower and sink both drain out of the side of the boat through drainage holes (and a pump for the shower to get it up above water level) So I don't think it's supposed to be a wet bilge boat. Also as MsLondon said the engine bilge is clear.

[RLWP]

2 minutes ago, gazmataz said:

Hi,

I also live on this boat.

The front cockpit is above the floor level and it's got drainage holes cut in the bow on either sides so the rain water is meant to drain straight off the deck. I just googled what a scupper was after Bizzard posted and that's what is draining the front deck. The shower and sink both drain out of the side of the boat through drainage holes (and a pump for the shower to get it up above water level) So I don't think it's supposed to be a wet bilge boat. Also as MsLondon said the engine bilge is clear.

That's useful.

[bizzard]

Dry bilge boat, I reckon.  Sounds like either a lot of condensation built up down there, or window frames leaking, plumbing leaking into it, shower drain leaking into it. Does the water pump keep burping when it shouldn't ?     Erm any fish swimming about down there.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bizzard

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Mslondon said:

Where we drilled the holes were about 80cm apart along the length of the boat in the kitchen and steel below both.

Did you drill right down the centerline of the boat? If so you may have hit a steel kelson running longitudinally.

[Keeping Up]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Did you drill right down the centerline of the boat? If so you may have hit a steel kelson running longitudinally.

I didn't think Harbouroughs had those

[Horace42]

If you have hit steel so soon after drilling a hole it suggests you have drilled where a steel joist or rib is. As these are usually a couple of inches wide, drilling a line of very small holes diagonally away from the spot will soon miss the joist. Then cut a larger hole for access.

If the floor is laid directly on the steel base - and if the bilge is seriously wet - you will get water pouring up through the holes. Albeit if that was the case you would already have a wet floor at the lower end as the water would have already come up through the joints - or if not 'flooded' then certainly a wet floor, probably rotten. Other clues maybe a line of rusty screw/nail heads showing the direction of the joist.

A currently dry floor suggests no water at that point, or at least a clearance space.