Jump to content

Cost of a 1979 33ft Springer


SadieF

Featured Posts

22 hours ago, Horace42 said:

But if not sinking, or beached?, or cut-up, how are old boats disposed of?
 

1. They are taken to London by unscrupulous landlords and rented out as student accommodation.

2. They are given a coat of paint and sold on by unscrupulous sellers.

3. They get taken over by "Travellers" and permanently moored with no licence, twelve dogs, fifteen children, six washing lines and a lot of accumulated "things".

4. They get hauled out of the water and "stored" at farms alongside the cut.

5. CRT (or whatever they are called this week) remove them, pretend to auction them off but don't tell anyone where or when the auction is taking place.

Edited by manxmike
ETA number 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Springers were/are good solid, no nonsense, honest boats. They are looked down upon because of this annoying hierarchy. I've got a such and such boat, when really if they saw some of the building practises of these 'great builders', they would have a completely different view..

 

Nothing wrong with a Springer.. I haven't had one pass through my hands yet, but have been in many that were being refitted over the years and they are simply straight forward decent boats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Tom766 said:

Mines 10k.  Good every day 1980 Springer...like her too much to sell at mo.......

Good to hear it. Has the hull been looked after? - blacked - over-plated?

...and if selling - who would by it? - and if you could not find a buyer - what would you do with it ....which is my underlying reason for asking  #94?

Would you be one of those listed by Manxmike?  #101

Just interested

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13/06/2018 at 08:57, 70liveaboard said:

This is a little over your top end, but worth asking for more pics. http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=570329

Thanks for this. yes i saw it but i think it's a little too wee for me. 

On 13/06/2018 at 08:35, alan_fincher said:

 

If a BMC 1.5 can't push a small 30 foot boat along at a good pace without producing a lot of smoke, I would hardly call it "sound"!

 

Many elderly BMCs smoke a bit on start up, or when thrashed, but a "sound" one, once warmed up, should speed a 30 foot boat with only minimal smoke, (or better still none).

What colour is the smoke?

yes i thought it seems a little dubious. i'm no expert but it should be able to go at a normal speed if it was 'sound'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13/06/2018 at 08:42, Alan de Enfield said:

Not quite following the terminology.

Has it been plater starting 22 foot from the stern to the bow, or the bow and 22 feet backwards ?

What is "6-14 feet" ?

Were the sides plated up to the water line or just the base plate ?

 

Sounds like it may have been plated in stages as the 'problems' were found - it would have been easier and (probably) cheaper to have done the job in one-go.

What state are the non-overplated parts in ?

 

I'd always hesitate to buy an overplated boat without knowing how it was done and what the condition is underneath the plating - its different to buy a boat needing overplating and having it done under your control so you know what's being done.

 

Unless the boat is very, very cheap, and you can afford to spend £1000s on it (or even lose it) then I'd keep my cheque book firmly in my pocket and walk away.

I believe the surveyor was saying it's been plated from the bow 8 feet back. so measurements starting from the back. and it's just the base plate. Even so, this is quite alot of overplating work. 

 

The owner has got back to me and they are wanting 17k. i think this is a bit ridiculous so i'm going to leave it. I can't really be bothered to haggle it down as the overplating and potentially dodgy engine are a bit off putting. 

 

I can't afford to spend money on a boat that might sink or need loads doing.

On 13/06/2018 at 12:19, manxmike said:

Personally I would approach something like this with a great deal of caution, partially overplated and a springer made from poorer quality thin steel? Recipe for disaster or at the least a great deal of expense down the line.

Keep looking and keep the barge pole handy!

It's not a springer. it's unknown. the orginal post was about a springer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 13/06/2018 at 15:04, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Other posters are focussing on the hull condition and all the overplating but I'm more concerned about the engine. Even a very rusty hull will continue floating for many years and a lot of overplating is done only to satisfy the ludicrous requirement of comprehensive insurers for 4mm minimum hull thickness, and a lot of overplating is a monumental bodge-up of no technical value other than to satisfy this arbitrary 4mm insurance requirement.

 

A hull less than 4mm in places may well have decades of life still in it but this is not guaranteed, you would be throwing the dice and hoping to win, but the chances are you would get many happy years out of this boat even with no further overplating, provided you are ok with third party only insurance.

 

The engine however worries me. A BMC 1.5 is way oversized for that boat and you should be able to tow water skiers, so given the bit I hightlighted I think we can safely say it is in a seriously bad way and needs several £k of work on it immediately. This is probably why it is for sale.

 

In answer to your question about value, given the need to spend oodles of dosh on the engine immediately along with the doubtful condition of the hull combined with it's great age, I would value this boat at about £3k. Possibly £5k given you say the interior is particularly nice and suits your needs. Once you have spent say £4k getting the engine rebuilt, the boat will still not be worth much more due to age and the indeterminate state of the hull with all that dodgy overplating. Surveying an overplated hull often doesn't tell you much you don't know already. 

 

Just my opinion though. 

 

 

 

Hi Mike the Boilerman

 

Thanks for this advice. 

 

Yeah i'm dubious about the engine. The owner texted me the other day saying she wanted 17k for it. I spat out my tea involuntarily through shock. I think that's a bit silly, so i'm going to leave it and sit tight for a better deal that's within my budget. Working engine and sound hull has to be a priority. There was an advisory in the survey about the engine possibly needing a full rebuild and being costly, however she advised this wasn't the case, .... yeah if it's going so slowly and smoking it doesn't seem right and i feel like i'm being taken for a ride a bit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, SadieF said:

I can't really be bothered to haggle it down as the overplating and potentially dodgy engine are a bit off putting. 

 

Point of Order...

 

It isn't a potentially dodgy engine, it is a 100% definitely dodgy engine.

 

Good decision to cross this one off your list. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Horace-42...made an offer unseen,  went with the cash a couple of weeks later, looked over the boat and sailed away.  En route back to Cambs from Oxford had the boat lifted and blacked, couple of little jobs done at the same time.  Looked over the boat on the dock,  hull is very tidy with no plating.  Ran faultless all the way back home over 7 weekends and now I tinker to make her really nice, get all the little snags sorted.  My logic is there are worriers and doers.  Good sound entry level narrowboat and it'll probably out live me.  Only needs an enthusiastic optimist like me to snap it up in future.  Sad I have to pay around £450 to have it lifted and surveyed for 'accident and sinking cover' just because its over 30 yrs old.  Watched a documentary last night, an old working type narrowboat was over a hundred years old,  made me chuckle..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, SadieF said:

Thanks for this. yes i saw it but i think it's a little too wee for me. 

yes i thought it seems a little dubious. i'm no expert but it should be able to go at a normal speed if it was 'sound'

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=569823

 

also

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=570928

 

added

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=568103

 

:)

Edited by 70liveaboard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

Thanks. 

This looks promising. Does it mean the entire original hull has been replaced - rather than plated in places. 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=569823

Edited by SadieF
forgot to add link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, SadieF said:

Thanks. 

This looks promising. Does it mean the entire original hull has been replaced - rather than plated in places. 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=569823

Just a couple of immediate 'concerns'

 

A couple of years ago a Springer sank on the River Thames as it had been completely overplated and then with a couple of people and a dog at the back end, it was so 'heavy' and low in the water that water entered thru' the engine room vents and it sank (that's a very brief version of events - do a search for the full story). If you go to look at this boat check the height of the engine room vents (and any other hull openings) above the water line. 10" (250mm) is the suggested minimum for Leisure boats, and 10" minimum is mandatory for rental boats, commercial boats etc.

It does say "Internal - sections of the old base removed" - so - maybe it does not have a 'double skin' - It also states "new air vent added" is that in addition, or, has the old one been welded up as it is too low in the water - worth asking questions.

 

The old ballast has been removed, but no mention of its replacement - are they relying on the additional weight of the overplating  to act as 'ballast' ?

 

I'm not sure that I'm reading it correctly, but it would appear to have a 3-cylinder air cooled engine - this is unlikely to be ideal unless you like 'playing about with engines', don't mind a noisy engine, don't want hot water on the boat.

You ideally should be looking at boats with water cooled engines

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@SadieF

The writeup does point to the fact it has had a lot of work done. So really, its a case of a phone call, or maybe better, an email through to the seller and just ask questions.

It does read as though its been over plated, that would be a big 'plus' (lets be honest).

Hot water you can get from a gas water heater, not sure if it said it had one or not, but they're not the most expensive of items. However, fitting a water heater, gas wise and plumbing, may be pricey though.

 

Its just a few I saw that fell into your budget, just be careful and inquisitive. Don't part with any money before your completely happy and sure.

 

Now my feeling.. I feel as though its probably been a rescue boat, ie; sank at some stage. Although this sounds terrible, it doesn't mean that it is terrible, provided the hull has been repaired properly.

But you have to go in and really look carefully, take someone along with you.

I don't think, even with the work that has been done, it will be a 'walk on and sail away' boat, probably needs much more doing.

 

But it is worth a look, or just an email.

 

Edit: @sadief..

Ask for lots more pics, inside and out (as many as pos). Also ask if there are any numbers that might be attached to the boat, either paperwork or reg numbers etc. Can't remember seeing any in the ad.

Edited by 70liveaboard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only photo posted of this boat looks really weird. I'd be dead careful if I were you. It looks far too far high in the water.

 

My guess is it is actually on the bank and the photo taken carefully to fool you into thinking it is in the water. Like 70 says above, plating all over the hull in 6mm is dead fishy. The boat was probably only made from 5mm in the first place so the hull has possibly almost doubled in weight, and simply doesn't float properly. Make sure you see it in the water and floating correctly and not too deep, before even considering buying it. 

image.png.fa37d4549b83af4eda6efad91a9eed68.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The only photo posted of this boat looks really weird. I'd be dead careful if I were you. It looks far too far high in the water.

 

My guess is it is actually on the bank and the photo taken carefully to fool you into thinking it is in the water. Like 70 says above, plating all over the hull in 6mm is dead fishy. The boat was probably only made from 5mm in the first place so the hull has possibly almost doubled in weight, and simply doesn't float properly. Make sure you see it in the water and floating correctly and not too deep, before even considering buying it. 

image.png.fa37d4549b83af4eda6efad91a9eed68.png

It does look very high. i wonder why that is. it really is a minefield out there. I've been in touch anyway - waiting for some more pics and info. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, SadieF said:

It does look very high. i wonder why that is.

 

It looks SO high, it has to be either a photoshopped picture or it is actually resting on stocks. The hull of a Springer on the hard standing looks no taller than is visible in that photo, therefore we know none of that boat hull in the photo is actually in the water.

 

Look at the height of the bow of the boat behind for comparison. My money is on it being a photoshopped pic. I bet if you call them they say it os out of the water now and can be viewed on the hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It looks SO high, it has to be either a photoshopped picture or it is actually resting on stocks. The hull of a Springer on the hard standing looks no taller than is visible in that photo, therefore we know none of that boat hull in the photo is actually in the water.

 

Look at the height of the bow of the boat behind for comparison. My money is on it being a photoshopped pic. I bet if you call them they say it os out of the water now and can be viewed on the hard.

The advert does say it can be viewed on their 'floating dock' - wonder if the picture is taken with it on the floating dock ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SadieF said:

It does look very high. i wonder why that is. it really is a minefield out there. I've been in touch anyway - waiting for some more pics and info. 

Your right @sadief, it is a minefield, as with most things second hand/used. That's why you need lots of details before parting with anything. I would certainly take someone along with you, if you decide to view it. But just wait for the things you've asked for, you've only enquired so far.

Don't worry yourself too much. If anything makes you feel -'not sure'- walk away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadie, I think we all understand the feeling that the summer is slipping away and you want to get on the water NOW. But beware those rose coloured glasses that tend to magically appear when we see a boat that seems to tick some of the boxes.

The advice offered in this forum is excellent - whilst there are some first class Springers out there that the owners love and cherish, the fact is that they were built to a budget of lower grade thin steel. Overplating can provide a fresh lease of life but can bring its own problems - apart from anything else the design of the Springer never allowed for the extra weight of a second hull with all the ballast problems that can bring.

The right boat is out there for you, it's just a case of biting your lip and being patient.

Winter is actually a good time to look at boats, all sort of problems that you won't notice in the summer become apparent, you can also negotiate a better price in winter as the buyer generally wants someone else to have the problems that can occur in colder, wetter weather.

Good luck, take your time and take a friend with you who doesn't have a vested interest.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 17/06/2018 at 21:59, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It looks SO high, it has to be either a photoshopped picture or it is actually resting on stocks. The hull of a Springer on the hard standing looks no taller than is visible in that photo, therefore we know none of that boat hull in the photo is actually in the water.

 

Look at the height of the bow of the boat behind for comparison. My money is on it being a photoshopped pic. I bet if you call them they say it os out of the water now and can be viewed on the hard.

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

Some more photo's at ebay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 16/06/2018 at 00:38, Tom766 said:

Mines 10k.  Good every day 1980 Springer...like her too much to sell at mo.......

Good to hear it. Has the hull been looked after? - blacked - over-plated?

...and if selling - who would by it - and if you could not find a buyer - what would you do with it ....which is my underlying reason for asking - then what would you do with  ?

Just interested

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.