European withdrawal bill effect on boating

[Phoenix_V]

35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I read this requirement (a) as being for the importation of 'new' boats into the EU and the request that they be free of tariffs - so how does this affect your current boat & boating

There are currently 1000s of UK boats visiting the EU but I cannot envisage there being many (any ?) boats visiting Europe from the Canals of the UK - but, should such boats cross the channel, to an EU country they would be subject to the same rules as any boat visiting from any non-EU country.

Any boats from any of the worlds canals that are non-EU based will have the same restrictions and T&Cs to comply with.

 

The concern (appears to me) to be the status of visiting boats, not the status of boats already legally registered and operated in the EU

 

Union Goods status means what ?

Simply that it can cross borders with no tariffs being applied - it still must comply with EU construction and use regulations and still be VAT paid in an EU country.

Does not registering your vessel in the country then make it a (say) French boat rather than a UK boat ?

I know when we looked at leaving one of our boats down it Spain, it had to be Spanish registered and became a 'Vessel under the Spanish Flag'

Registration (Matriculación) under the Spanish flag is required for boats spending over 182 days a year in Spanish waters. The majority of Capitania Maritima (Maritime Authorities) are able to register/re-register vessels. The Commandancia de Marina Mercante can also carry out this procedure. The cost of registration includes a matriculation tax of 12 percent of the vessel's value.

Once the boat is locally registered the Skipper then also comes under Spanish Maritime Law and must have a qualification to suit the boat.

Licences fall into the following categories:

• Patrón de Navegación Básica (PNB) (Basic Navigation Skipper)
  Licence to skipper a sailing yacht maximum 8 metres in length or a motor boat maximum 6 metres (with a motor appropriate to the size) provided the boats stay within 4 miles of the shore
• Patrón de Embarcaciones de Recreo (PER) (Recreational Vessel's Skipper)
  Licence to skipper a motor boat up to 12 metres, within 12 miles of shore
• Patrón de Yate (Yacht Master)
  Licence to skipper a yacht up to 20 metres within 60 miles of land
• Capitán de Yate (Yacht Captain)
  No limitations
• Patrón de Moto Náutica (Motor Boat Skipper)
  • Patrón de Moto Náutica C (licence C to skipper boats under 55 CV)
  • Patrón de Moto Náutica B (licence B to skipper boats between 55 CV and 110 CV)
  • Patrón de Moto Náutica A (licence A to skipper boats from 110 CV)

 

Both Spain & the UK are in the EU and the boat has 'union goods status' but this is not an optional registration. Once registered, the boat become 'Spanish' and UK sea-faring laws and regulations no longer apply to it.

Technically I am visiting, boat is UK built registered and vat paid and will return to UK one day - i hope not too soon.

Meantime if I go into France in say 2022 what is to say there will not be consequences, if I return to UK and then back to Belgium what then.

I am not a Belgian resident so n under their rules no need  to reregister in Belgium.

What exactly do you object to in asking the government to negotiate some free movement rules for boats (and people)?

Just now, Phoenix_V said:

Union Goods status means what ?

Simply that it can cross borders with no tariffs being applied -

Quite so

[Tam & Di]

57 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I read this requirement (a) as being for the importation of 'new' boats into the EU and the request that they be free of tariffs - so how does this affect your current boat & boating

There are currently 1000s of UK boats visiting the EU but I cannot envisage there being many (any ?) boats visiting Europe from the Canals of the UK - but, should such boats cross the channel, to an EU country they would be subject to the same rules as any boat visiting from any non-EU country.

Union Goods status means what ?

Simply that it can cross borders with no tariffs being applied - it still must comply with EU construction and use regulations and still be VAT paid in an EU country.

Does not registering your vessel in the country then make it a (say) French boat rather than a UK boat ?

There are some 1400 boat-owning members of the DBA and I'd guess that half of those cruise continental waterways to a greater or lesser extent. A fair number do cross the Channel, either on their own bottom or in the case of narrow boats and widebeam vessels by lorry. Yes, they have to comply with regulations, but virtually none of these will be French etc registered and there is no requirement for them to be so.

Your Spanish experience has no particular relevance for those of us who cruise inland waters. So yes, the constraints that are bound to come in will affect us.

 

[JamesFrance]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I know when we looked at leaving one of our boats down it Spain, it had to be Spanish registered and became a 'Vessel under the Spanish Flag'

Registration (Matriculación) under the Spanish flag is required for boats spending over 182 days a year in Spanish waters. The majority of Capitania Maritima (Maritime Authorities) are able to register/re-register vessels. The Commandancia de Marina Mercante can also carry out this procedure. The cost of registration includes a matriculation tax of 12 percent of the vessel's value.

 

No this is wrong, the boat only has to be imported if the owner stays for over 182 days per year, the boat can stay tax free as mine has for the last 10 years.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

There are some 1400 boat-owning members of the DBA and I'd guess that half of those cruise continental waterways to a greater or lesser extent. A fair number do cross the Channel, either on their own bottom or in the case of narrow boats and widebeam vessels by lorry. Yes, they have to comply with regulations, but virtually none of these will be French etc registered and there is no requirement for them to be so.

Your Spanish experience has no particular relevance for those of us who cruise inland waters. So yes, the constraints that are bound to come in will affect us.

 

My point is that each country can adopt whatever rules it wants - there is more to EU boating than France.

France may implement no changes, or adopt very draconian rules.

 

3 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

No this is wrong, the boat only has to be imported if the owner stays for over 182 days per year, the boat can stay tax free as mine has for the last 10 years.

You have done very well - I'd be interesting in how you have achieved that.

The Spanish Information Department "Sailing & Boating in Spain"

Say :

Registration (Matriculación) under the Spanish flag is required for boats spending over 182 days a year in Spanish waters. The majority of Capitania Maritima (Maritime Authorities) are able to register/re-register vessels. The Commandancia de Marina Mercante can also carry out this procedure. The cost of registration includes a matriculation tax of 12 percent of the vessel's value.

Not that the owner spends 182 days.

It would be helpful if you could inform me of how to exploit your loop-hole, or links to official documentation supporting your experience.

I would still look to move one of them out there is that is the case.

[JamesFrance]

These are the experts http://www.taxmarine.com/index.php

The one who deals with all this is Alex Chumillas.  

Also in Spanish http://www.nauticalegal.com/en/articulo/315-spanish-matriculation-tax-and-vat

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

These are the experts http://www.taxmarine.com/index.php

The one who deals with all this is Alex Chumillas.  

Also in Spanish http://www.nauticalegal.com/en/articulo/315-spanish-matriculation-tax-and-vat

Many thanks (& for the PM) I'll read and be in touch.

[Heartland]

How will this topic affect cross border boating from Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic, I wonder

[Bee]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

How will this topic affect cross border boating from Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic, I wonder

In theory it will be the same as someone turning up in a boat at Calais and  entering the canal system but in fact nobody knows, you could try writing to your MP but they won't know either, like so much of this brexit delusion nobody realised how many things would become difficult - especially for ordinary people just going about their day to day lives.

[Dr Bob]

3 hours ago, Heartland said:

How will this topic affect cross border boating from Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic, I wonder

Probably wind direction will be of more of a worry if trying to sail across Carlingford Loch.

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, Bee said:

In theory it will be the same as someone turning up in a boat at Calais and  entering the canal system but in fact nobody knows, you could try writing to your MP but they won't know either, like so much of this brexit delusion nobody realised how many things would become difficult - especially for ordinary people just going about their day to day lives.

You remainers do make the strong forward looking MAJORITY giggle  Keep em coming.

[Machpoint005]

11 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

You remainers do make the strong forward looking MAJORITY giggle  Keep em coming.

Keep giggling, it'll mean you don't have to face reality (yet). 

Leavers have become adept at self-delusion because there is still no evidence in their support.

[Heartland]

You do not have to live outside the UK - You adapt & comply with the requirements of the world you have decided to live in - it is no more than we are expecting foreigners to do on coming to the UK.

 

I agree with this sentiment.

 

Whatever our politicians make with the final Brexit negotiations, in the face of the hostilities generated by both supporters and opposers of this historic change, Doris Day sung a song with an appropriate message "que sera sera".   

[carlt]

Apparently we'll have to travel on the left hand side of the canal after Brexit.