National refuses to start

[Jrtm]

I cant flick 1 cylinder at a time its both or nothing,

Sod draining the oil out, i can only just get to the bung.

[NB Esk]

It's a long shot as it sounds like the injection timing but, as you say you've had the injectors out a number of times, you haven't accidentally put an extra copper sealing washer down the injector holes, by any chance?

[Jrtm]

I did do this last time trap a copper washer but not this time, ive got a feeling it may have been this fuel pipe but i cant do much till new one arrives unfortunately this wont be till after easter.

[NB Esk]

1 minute ago, billybobbooth said:

I did do this last time trap a copper washer but not this time, ive got a feeling it may have been this fuel pipe but i cant do much till new one arrives unfortunately this wont be till after easter.

Ah, ok.  I was meaning one on top of another so the injector body is spaced further away, reducing the efficiency of the atomisation.  Just a thought....

[Jrtm]

Oh ok.

Ive found the details to check the timing so will also do this next time.

[RLWP]

2 hours ago, canalboat said:

If you are going to turn it over that many times before flicking the compression down (usually 6 fast turns will do it) on one cylinder only first, then as an old boater once recommended,  in cold weather drain out half the oil so that the single cylinder has the least resistance against firing and you still had energy left to go again if it didn't fire.

How does that make any difference? The crank isn't dipping into the oil, the oil pump is still working, so the amount of oil is irrelevant

Richard

[Tacet]

3 hours ago, RLWP said:

How does that make any difference? The crank isn't dipping into the oil, the oil pump is still working, so the amount of oil is irrelevant

Richard

You will have had a rest whilst the oil was draining - which means you can turn it over faster.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Tacet

[Jrtm]

By 3 semi quick turns it turns over about the same hot weather or cold, it would prob help if there was ice inside the engine room e.g. below -5 outside but in our reasont weather is only stiff for the first 2-3 turn sets i.e my 10 first turns then the 2nd faster its only normally still a little stuff due to oil thickness on the 1st real attempt at starting after that it feels around the same.

You may notice more of a diffrence if you didnt start by hand that often but as an every hand start person its negligible by 3rd turn

Its alot more effort to drain the oil then try and get it back in quickly once started or a pain to then stop the engine strait after to then fill the oil to then start again.

Edited March 28, 2018 by billybobbooth

[Jrtm]

Semi success! It half runs one 1 cylinder, i think was 2 factors. I spent the evening checking  all the timing, fuel arm marks ect ect all bang on not adjusted a thing. So whats happened

1 back fuel pipe leak and 2 i took fuel pump apart and looks like one of the pump needles was sticking a tiny bit at the bottom. Cleaned up refitted, bled and turned over and after 3 attempts got a couch, tried again and it ran sort of wasnt wonderfull as it wont pick up speed running on one but it ran on its own happy if i had left longer im sure it would have got to idle ok but with other injector out its ov squirting fuel out the pump on the pipe thats missing.

Not perfect but progress!

[Jrtm]

For anyone following this, it's all fixed and running.

New fuel pipes fitted and snapped turned over till pipes bled then fixed pipes to injectors.

Turned over about 10 times with injectors creaking, thought i would give it a try expecting nothing and very first attempt fired and ran.

Seams to be running far better than ever has, think I still have fuel pump 1 notch too far as little black on fully loaded throttle even after had been running for 30 mins.

This ill sort another day but for now seams the old fuel pipes wernt up to it or wrong, as every engine i looked at all had equal pipes and all diffrent to mine even ones in other old boats or museum engines, I also think the fuel hole in the new pipe is very slightly bigger but I'm talking .05mm - .1mm

Aanyways for now it up and running again.

Thanks for help and suggestions.

[DRP]

Hooray! What a relief!

You must have been getting nearly desperate enough to take one of the facetious offers to take it off your hands!

[zenataomm]

Excellent news, you must feel well chuffed. 

Advice to all in future, "Get a couch" It must be the rest in between spins.

[MtB]

On 4/7/2018 at 21:16, billybobbooth said:

For anyone following this, it's all fixed and running.

New fuel pipes fitted and snapped turned over till pipes bled then fixed pipes to injectors.

Turned over about 10 times with injectors creaking, thought i would give it a try expecting nothing and very first attempt fired and ran.

Seams to be running far better than ever has, think I still have fuel pump 1 notch too far as little black on fully loaded throttle even after had been running for 30 mins.

This ill sort another day but for now seams the old fuel pipes wernt up to it or wrong, as every engine i looked at all had equal pipes and all diffrent to mine even ones in other old boats or museum engines, I also think the fuel hole in the new pipe is very slightly bigger but I'm talking .05mm - .1mm

Aanyways for now it up and running again.

Thanks for help and suggestions.

 

Excellent news and congratulations on getting it going again!

Can't help feeling puzzled about why new fuel pipes made the difference, or what prompted you to decide to change them in the first place. 

[BWM]

On 28/03/2018 at 19:21, billybobbooth said:

Semi success! It half runs one 1 cylinder, i think was 2 factors. I spent the evening checking  all the timing, fuel arm marks ect ect all bang on not adjusted a thing. So whats happened

1 back fuel pipe leak and 2 i took fuel pump apart and looks like one of the pump needles was sticking a tiny bit at the bottom. Cleaned up refitted, bled and turned over and after 3 attempts got a couch, tried again and it ran sort of wasnt wonderfull as it wont pick up speed running on one but it ran on its own happy if i had left longer im sure it would have got to idle ok but with other injector out its ov squirting fuel out the pump on the pipe thats missing.

Not perfect but progress!

I do wonder if during the process of removing the pump that something has been corrected, glad to hear that you are up and running again. 

[Jrtm]

On Tue Apr 10 2018 at 18:11, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Excellent news and congratulations on getting it going again!

Can't help feeling puzzled about why new fuel pipes made the difference, or what prompted you to decide to change them in the first place. 

we moved then 2 weeks later we went to move and it wouldnt start just coughed once and that was it.

after alot of messing and checking everything i noticed the front injector on the outside was wet thought odd as still creaked but on closer inspection you could see it dripping, i removed and found there was a crack in the steel retaining washer causing the pipe not to fully seal so the injector wasnt getting full pressure (hence not starting) i think this also caused a second problem with the top needle under the spring in the fuel pump to jam but this could have been where i eventually got it to run on 1 cylinder so it ran on that side of pump with no pressure as ive never had this prob with the pump before or sence.

i put new pipes on and she fire strait up. its started every time sence and ill i did was put on the new fuel pipes, it now runs better than before and the hunting has gone too that i got,

my only thought is the frost got in and cracked it as it wasnt covered on the second lot of snow we had, may have been on way out from 1st snow as after this it was hunting a bit and reving up and down.

its def sorted now as it hardly smokes and starts 1st attempt everytime even when sat for a week or 2.

On Tue Apr 10 2018 at 16:03, DRP said:

Hooray! What a relief!

You must have been getting nearly desperate enough to take one of the facetious offers to take it off your hands!

no one offered a bolly!