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Calorifier leaking.


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Now then.....

I'm looking for some advise regarding our Calorifier, its decided to start leaking from around one of the fittings (see pic ) first on the right, of the 3 pictured, now my question is...if I unscrew the fitting to sort out the leak are we going to have a load of water all over the place...I've looked in our boat file and we have nothing on this calorifier, no instuctions or plumbing details what so ever, I'm stuck at this point....By the looks of it, the plastic pipe has been pushed outa place and it seems to be leaking from the top of the metal nut the fits onto the tank its self..I hope that make some sort of sence.....All I need to know I supose is...is this going to be under some sort of pressure, can I drain down the tank,how much water is going to pour out if I take off this fitting ect ect any info would be greatfully recived....... also while were here...the blue and red knob on the left....whats this for ?? filling the tank?? as when its turned slightly you can here water being fed into the tank...does this need to be done on a regular base's ......I must say up until now, we have never had any problems with it, always had plenty of hot water ect....

Over to you guys...

Regards  Hullygully.......

20180316_103225.jpg

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Firstly the red know is letting water out when you turn it not in, its the pressure relief valve and is there to stop the colorifier over pressurising which is possible when the water expands as its heated if you don't have an expansion vessel. Sorry I cant see exactly where the leak is from your photo

edit to add

If that is an immersion heater to the right then the cable needs making off correctly as well. Can you indicate which is the top of the cylinder?

Edited by ditchcrawler
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12 minutes ago, hullygully said:

its decided to start leaking from around one of the fittings (see pic ) first on the right, of the 3 pictured,

So I'm assuming this is the small elbow that is connected to the calorifier not the straight connector on the larger pipe sitting over the immersion heater.

You will have a pair of pipes which are the flow and return for each of the heat sources so likely one pair from/to the engine and one pair to/from a gas or diesel boiler then a cold feed ans a hot take off. I would try to work out which of these pipes is the one that is leaking by first starting the engine from cold and feeling if the pipe gets hot then try the boiler in the same way.  If neither of these get hot then it could be the hot take off. The cold feed is likely to come in at the bottom.  In any case turning off the pump should stop large amounts of water leaking if it is the cold feed or hot take off.  If you can work out that it is from either of the heat sources then look for stop valves in those circuits.  There will be a finite amount of water. If it is from a boiler then emptying the header tank will reduce this.  Then I think it is a question of catching / mopping up what leaks. Heating circuits will have some form of antifreeze which may be coloured and smell.  Be sure there is no power on the immersion.  Refilling will probably mean bleeding out some air.

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35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If that is an immersion heater to the right then the cable needs making off correctly as well. 

It also should be wired in heat-resistant flex, not the arctic which appears to have been used.

 

MP.

 

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1 Turn off Water Pump (if you have't already)

2 Turn on taps 

This will release any positive pressure in the domestic  water system.

The leaking fitting may well be one of these :- 

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1647/product/j27%2f15.aspx

(Other suppliers may be nearer or cheaper) - if as you suggest it has been distorted then replacing the fitting is probably best

I would expect (though not guarantee) the 15mm or 1/2" fittings on the calorifier to be "domestic water" i.e cold in, hot out to taps, while the heat exchange fittings are more likely to be 22mm or 3/4" i.e. feed & return from a heat source (engine or C.H.) 

You do need to identify whether the leak whether the leak is "domestic" or "heat exchange" as this makes a considerable difference to what needs to be drained.

Can you locate a tank drain ? Does it go anywhere sensible or are you going to need a pump or aquavac of some sort to remove the drained water.

If the leak is on the domestic then it should make the water pump run every so often.

If the leak is on the heat exchange circuit the water should have antifreeze in it and you may need to drain the engine or C.H. as appropriate.

springy

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I really should not say this but if it were mine I would put a little of the leak on my finger and dab the minimum amount on the tip of my tongue. If it's sweet or bitter its antifreeze so its from the engine or central heating circuit. If there is no  significant taste it domestic water.

If its antifreeze then it may well be a faulty fitting or faulty fitting of the fitting. If its water then I fear the calorifier might have split under the nut.

 

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1 hour ago, MoominPapa said:

It also should be wired in heat-resistant flex, not the arctic which appears to have been used.

 

MP.

 

Also the outer cable shouldn't be stripped back outside the terminal box. It should be clamped inside 

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Hi Guys.....The leak must be from the "Heat exchange" as its got antifreeze in it, (should have put that in my post sorry)... I was thinking that if I squeeze the rubber hose from the engine with the special tool (molegrips) then disconect the plastic pipe it feeds to the Calorifier, drain it back into the engine compartment, that should get ride of some of the water, then disconect the elbow joint ontop of the tank, then sort out the leak, I'm thinking it could be a olive or O-ring thats out of place...due to the pipe above putting pressure on it over time 10 years its moved thus the leak...well thats my thinking, right or wrong its going to be messy.....

Hullygully...

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In that case I would suggest you make sure everything is cold. remove the coolant filler cap to ensure there is no pressure and put the cap back on. if you can clamp the pipe that would also reduce losses, especially if you can do flow and return then you shouldn't lose much fluid. You are sure its engine and not water heater, Ebber, Webasto, back boiler ?

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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I really should not say this but if it were mine I would put a little of the leak on my finger and dab the minimum amount on the tip of my tongue. If it's sweet or bitter its antifreeze so its from the engine or central heating circuit. If there is no  significant taste it domestic water.

If its antifreeze then it may well be a faulty fitting or faulty fitting of the fitting. If its water then I fear the calorifier might have split under the nut.

 

You'll either die today if it contains nerve agent, tomorrow if it contains a smidgin of nerve agent or sometime later if it's only antifreeze or just plain water. I would have done wot Tony says....but it sounds like you have worked it out already. Best of luck.

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Right. First you need to find oput EXACTLY where the water leak is coming from. I don't mean what pipe in general, I mean identify the precise point the water is emerging from. Do this by drying the area carefully with tissue paper then using a bright torch to inspect at close quarters with your reading glasses on to locate PRECISELY where the drip is coming from. 

Then close-up photograph the exact source of the leak and post it here for proper advice about how to fix it. 

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Right o Mike the Boilerman, The story so far......

Do ya see the first fitting on the right of the 3 white plastic elbow's..

OK with my glasses on and a good led torch, we can see water, with antifreeze (coz its red) engine running, seeping up the short plastic pipe that comes from the metal nut that fits onto the Colorifier....its been pushed slightly out of true thus water is passing up from the seal or, O-ring thats inside of sed nut....thats the problem....the fix is take the bugger off and replace with a new fitting as described by Springy in a earler post....well thats the plan, unless there's a better one ??

Thanks for all the advise guys, now I have a good idea of what I'm dealing with we'll get stuck in..

Cheers Hullygully....

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Mine has a slight leak from around the immersion heater screw bit. Not a lot, but it's not going to get any better. I believe to get these out are a bit of a pain. I'll investigate if it the copper skin or the the threads are leaking.

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17 minutes ago, hullygully said:

Right o Mike the Boilerman, The story so far......

Do ya see the first fitting on the right of the 3 white plastic elbow's..

OK with my glasses on and a good led torch, we can see water, with antifreeze (coz its red) engine running, seeping up the short plastic pipe that comes from the metal nut that fits onto the Colorifier....its been pushed slightly out of true thus water is passing up from the seal or, O-ring thats inside of sed nut....thats the problem....the fix is take the bugger off and replace with a new fitting as described by Springy in a earler post....well thats the plan, unless there's a better one ??

Thanks for all the advise guys, now I have a good idea of what I'm dealing with we'll get stuck in..

Cheers Hullygully....

 

Those fittings rarely fail structurally. My money is on the black neoprene seal under the brass nut of the fitting being either missing of misplaced/distorted. 

Fittings must not be assembled under stress or they leak....

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Fittings must not be assembled under stress or they leak....

True that.  The more stressed the fitter, the worse the standard of work. 

That's why people shouting at you when there is a large puddle doesn't lead to good plumbing!

  • Haha 1
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On 3/16/2018 at 19:50, hullygully said:

I'm thinking it could be a olive or O-ring thats out of place

A  problem from experience with push-fit plumbing (John Guest, Hep2 etc) is that the early designs suffered with `O` ring deterioration accentuated by movement which a canal boat is prone to. Having said that it is very very popular with out faults.

Regarding the existence of anti freeze. All of those pipes indicated would normally expect to contain antifreeze as two are flow and return from the external boiler(Espatcher/Webasto etc) and two are flow and return from the engine. NO domestic water should be in anyway in contact with the domestic supply. The cold fill to the tank should have a non-return valve to ensure any water to fill the pipes is isolated from the domestic. Especially drinking water and hot water in the Calorifier. At least then if the internal pipes in the calorifier did fail (extremely unlikely) then apart from the hot water system being corrupted (hot taps/shower) your cold drinking water would remain intact.Anti-freeze is toxic. 

In the case in question as suggested you`ve to find out which circuit the pipe is in. If engine turn of tap in engine circuit at engine block (it should have one but if not as suggested try and clamp off) and remove pipe in engine room. A certain amount of water will drain into the bilge which you can pump out easily. If pipe is in the circuit to the boiler again isolate/clamp off and allow water to drain. If boiler in engine room easy ,if in cabin then once actual pipe located try and drain into suitable receptacle. Once water drained remove calorifier fitting and sort it. Recommend use of LSX sealant on threads from plastic to brass and avoid over tightening.   

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18 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Those fittings rarely fail structurally.

Assuming you are referring to the John Guest fittings I know of a large part of a newly built housing (with in 20 years)  estate in Devon which had to have the major part of it`s system replaced due to fitting failure. However I suspect the fittings used were the early type which you had real difficulty in dismantling. 

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51 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is that hot from the engine or hot from the boiler? My wife marked the calendar up to know what bin to put out on what week with the letter B, we have a black bin one week and a blue bin the following week.

Yes.  I see what you mean.  The top two pipes are flow and return from the Refleks; the bottom two are cold water in and hot out for the domestic supply; the one going across is the overflow (you can't see the label).  

 

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56 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 My wife marked the calendar up to know what bin to put out on what week with the letter B, we have a black bin one week and a blue bin the following week.

Completely off  topic (sorry).  Years ago I was left in charge of the washing machine.  I diligently sorted whites and colours.  I assumed "strong colours" were those that stayed firm and didn't run.  You can imagine the resultant wash. :blush:

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is that hot from the engine or hot from the boiler? My wife marked the calendar up to know what bin to put out on what week with the letter B, we have a black bin one week and a blue bin the following week.

That’d be B for Bin then ;)

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3 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

Completely off  topic (sorry).  Years ago I was left in charge of the washing machine.  I diligently sorted whites and colours.  I assumed "strong colours" were those that stayed firm and didn't run.  You can imagine the resultant wash. :blush:

 

Nope, you've got me there. What's a 'washing machine '?

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