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Middlewich Branch breach - Shropshire Union


lostnortherner

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16 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Why? As we keep saying, CRT is neither a housing authority nor a social service organisation. Mind you, the LA response is likely to be giving them a cardboard box each.

Anyone whose boat is caught would be well advised to ring their insurer, who need to be told anyway if we're looking at craning out, as there may just be consequential damage as a result of the grounding which would lead to a subsequent claim. Many liveaboard policies include provision of alternate accommodation for a few days – our GJW one does.

Not a chance, I'd have thought. It looks a lot like the Dutton breach and that took 18 months, IIRC. Can't tell until the engineers have assessed it though, and there'll be a lot of pressure on to get the Four Counties open again.

Ouch, 18 months is a long time! Hopefully can get the boats craned and/or re-floated. What material do they rebuild the banks back up with and the procedure?

James.     

Edited by canals are us?
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10 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Why? As we keep saying, CRT is neither a housing authority nor a social service organisation. Mind you, the LA response is likely to be giving them a cardboard box each.

If the LA could discharge its statutory homelessness duty with a cardboard box, I'm sure they would. But they can't.  They can, however, argue that the root cause of the liveaboards' homelessness is a CaRT maintenance issue.  That's not turning CaRT into a housing authority; it's a housing authority holding CaRT responsible for homelessness due to canal disrepair

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25 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Not a chance, I'd have thought. It looks a lot like the Dutton breach and that took 18 months, IIRC. Can't tell until the engineers have assessed it though, and there'll be a lot of pressure on to get the Four Counties open again.

The difference from the Dutton breach is that was in the middle of nowhere, with really bad access. This one is one field away from the A530.

 

MP.

 

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21 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Now I'm not suggesting anyone should do this, but last year on the Weaver I met a couple who had just arrived from Ellesmere Port via the MSC without any contact with the MSC Company whatsoever! They arranged with the Council to swing the bridge, CRT to let them in at Marsh lock, and just went. Luckily they didn't meet anything or they may have had a bit of explaining to do or, worse still, sort insurance out if something went wrong.

I like it.

A few years ago we got stuck on the Thames when it went into flood, and even in those conditions there were a few narrowboats going through in the dead of night, I assume making a transit from Oxford to the K&A or even London and doing it without paying so needing to avoid the lock keepers.

Not sure about doing the MSC in thedark!

.............Dave

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26 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

Ouch, 18 months is a long time! Hopefully can get the boats craned and/or re-floated. What material do they rebuild the banks back up with and the procedure?

James.     

That is, to all intents and purposes, going to involve a new embankment. It probably won't be practical to recover the original embankment material so new fill will be needed

The boats above Wardle Lock can be refloated, the boat upstream of the breach is going to be more difficult to retrieve: it could be refloated with a bund across the canal behind it, or it could be craned, but both would need a load bearing assessment of the embankment - they might have to drag it up the mud to a point where they could lift it

Edited by magpie patrick
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1 hour ago, canals are us? said:

I. What do cart do if badgers/ rabbits burrow into the bank. Are they euthanized or left to it?

James

Badgers are a protected species so it would be illegal to cull or disturb their setts.

Edited by LadyG
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13 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

The difference from the Dutton breach is that was in the middle of nowhere, with really bad access. This one is one field away from the A530.

 

MP.

 

The breach may only be one field from the main road but that is to the offside of the canal. To gain access to the towpath side is more difficult as there are some expensive looking houses fronting onto the main road and the owner will not want heavy plant going through their gardens!! The best access is from Coalpit Lane down a cart track and across two fairly large fields.

Do we know which side of the river Wheelock aquaduct the breach has occured? A further complication may be the need to put a temporary bridge over the river to gain access to the breach.

This is not going to be resolved very quickly, the situation needs assessing ground condition surveys doing, a solution designed, tendered and then implemented. The works maybe carried out under the Framework agreement with Kier.

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9 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

That is, to all intents and purposes, going to involve a new embankment. It probably won't be practical to recover the original embankment material so new fill will be needed

The boats above Wardle Lock can be refloated, the boat upstream of the breach is going to be more difficult to retrieve: it could be refloated with a bund across the canal behind it, or it could be craned, but both would need a load bearing assessment of the embankment - they might have to drag it up the mud to a point where they could lift it

If the reports that this morning that the embankment was still giving way it does seen it could be very unstable.  Looking on Google Earth the embankment is not that long, about 330 meters, it could be a rebuild.  I guess it will be a week or two until there is some idea of the scope and if a "quick fix" can be done or not.  You would think either way you can forget it for this year at least.

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12 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

That is, to all intents and purposes, going to involve a new embankment. It probably won't be practical to recover the original embankment material so new fill will be needed

The boats above Wardle Lock can be refloated, the boat upstream of the breach is going to be more difficult to retrieve: it could be refloated with a bund across the canal behind it, or it could be craned, but both would need a load bearing assessment of the embankment - they might have to drag it up the mud to a point where they could lift it

It sounds expensive either way. I suppose that if you in-filled the breach in the bank you create pressure where the old and new joins.

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Badgers are a protected species so it would be illegal to cull or disturb their setts.

Unless of course for a badger cull for TB. Have badgers or rabbits ever caused a breach? Surely if badgers had, they could be humanely rehomed by a licensed contractor rather than cause an expensive breach?

James

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1 hour ago, canals are us? said:

Surely if badgers had [created a problem] they could be humanely rehomed by a licensed contractor rather than cause an expensive breach?

James

Not surprisingly farmers are not offering free fields to homeless badgers: they do a lot of damage and breed .............. like rabbits....................

In years gone by farmers and gamekeepers would have kept them under control by shooting, but that is not encouraged these days. Nowadays they may have to add cattle culling and other costly strategies in to their P&L forecasts.

Edited by LadyG
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23 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Badgers are a protected species so it would be illegal to cull or disturb their setts.

I spoke to the CaRT people doing the survey on the K&A and I think they said that three separate badger setts had dangerously weakened the embankment but it was going to be difficult as a lot of permissions had to be obtained. The work went ahead, though quite a while later, so I assume they got the required permissions. I don't know what became of the badgers but maybe common sense prevailed, the setts were doomed, either CaRT contractors were going to destroy them or the canal was going to collapse and destroy them. I bet if they undermined a motorway or railway embankment there would have been no messing about getting permissions.

..............Dave

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57 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Apart from when they’re culled. Crazy world we live in...

The culling is stricty controlled and is a sort of experiment, as its only  farmers who are affected by the tuberculosis, its not a vote winner.

In this brave new world we need to make sure the badgers are to be discouraged from our canals but are permitted in the rest of the countryside except where farmers successfully apply for eradication .............. its just not going to work :) 

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5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The culling is stricty controlled and is a sort of experiment, as its only a few farmers who are affected by the tuberculosis, so not a vote winner either way.

It may be an experiment, but they are just about to launch a whole new bunch of areas where culling will take place.

The breach a few years ago on the Llangollen Canal was blamed on badgers.  Apparently a few dead ones were found amongst the debris spread out over the adjoining field.   Although they got the blame, it is not clear if the sett caused the breach or the badgers were just unlucky.

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

I spoke to the CaRT people doing the survey on the K&A and I think they said that three separate badger setts had dangerously weakened the embankment but it was going to be difficult as a lot of permissions had to be obtained. The work went ahead, though quite a while later, so I assume they got the required permissions. I don't know what became of the badgers but maybe common sense prevailed, the setts were doomed, either CaRT contractors were going to destroy them or the canal was going to collapse and destroy them. I bet if they undermined a motorway or railway embankment there would have been no messing about getting permissions.

..............Dave

I like badgers as we used to live up a remote track in Herefordshire when I was 11 and used a 4x4 Subaru 1600 and 1800 to get to the cottage with no mains services in 1990. After a year of waiting for wayleaves had electricity put on for 8k water 5k, borehole 273 feet deep.

 It was a lovely common to explore as a child and could walk for miles exploring Croft Ambrey, Fishpool Valley etc with deer, badgers, red kite and all sorts of wildlife. I even made a little hut a distance from the badgers sett to watch them come out at night and it was lovely.

I certainly see sense in culling badgers/ rabbits where they pose a potential danger to the canal.

James 

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29 minutes ago, dor said:

It may be an experiment, but they are just about to launch a whole new bunch of areas where culling will take place.

The breach a few years ago on the Llangollen Canal was blamed on badgers.  Apparently a few dead ones were found amongst the debris spread out over the adjoining field.   Although they got the blame, it is not clear if the sett caused the breach or the badgers were just unlucky.

There are too many badgers. Once they burrowed and lived in woodland, causing liltte harm, now they are widespread causing destruction and disease. There are a lot of fluffy bunnies out there who do not understand nature "tooth and claw". The kind of people who brought hedgehogs to the Western Isles, causing the decimation of ground nesting bird populations.

It took polititians about thirty years to effect any badger control, as the link between them and cattle disease could not be proved, that means that the disease which was eradicated in cattle circa 1960, took hold again, and is now endemic in badgers and other wild animals. I can't think that it could be eradicated without wholesale slaughter of badgers, and there is no political will for that.

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, Richard T said:

The breach may only be one field from the main road but that is to the offside of the canal. To gain access to the towpath side is more difficult as there are some expensive looking houses fronting onto the main road and the owner will not want heavy plant going through their gardens!! The best access is from Coalpit Lane down a cart track and across two fairly large fields.

Do we know which side of the river Wheelock aquaduct the breach has occured? A further complication may be the need to put a temporary bridge over the river to gain access to the breach.

 The hole in the embankment is big enough that the repair is likely to be full cross-section. I doubt which side you approach it from matters, and once the earthworks are reinstated, the plant can retreat to either side.

Very conveniently the river even crosses under the the A530 a little to the West, so with two road entrances either side of the road bridge, across fields either side of the house alongside the river, you can get easy access to both sides of the aqueduct.

If this isn't fixed by a week next Tuesday, I'll want to know why! :)

Cheers,

 

MP.

 

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In this brave new world we need to make sure the badgers are to be discouraged from our canals but are permitted in the rest of the countryside except where farmers successfully apply for eradication .............. its just not going to work :) 

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18 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

 The hole in the embankment is big enough that the repair is likely to be full cross-section. I doubt which side you approach it from matters, and once the earthworks are reinstated, the plant can retreat to either side.

Very conveniently the river even crosses under the the A530 a little to the West, so with two road entrances either side of the road bridge, across fields either side of the house alongside the river, you can get easy access to both sides of the aqueduct.

If this isn't fixed by a week next Tuesday, I'll want to know why! :)

Cheers,

 

MP.

 

That all sounds more hopeful than my first reaction, but it still ain't going to be a quickie job. Looks like it's right next to the aqueduct, too, so presumably there's a question of whether the abutment has been undermined by the flood.

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Well I was going to take our boat across it to the Llangollen next weekend to be repainted at Swanley Bridge Marina. We are going to have to go the long way around over Easter. I predit a hurricane and lots of trees down in Grubb Street cutting over Easter. 

Does anyone want to buy an albatross?

 

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