Middlewich Branch breach - Shropshire Union

[cheshire~rose]

We moor on a bit of an embankment and, each year, contractors come and strim the undergrowth at regular intervals along that section. They are followed by a team who test the integrity of the bank. I assume this happens along every embankment?

[Nightwatch]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

CaRT are actually pretty good at monitoring things. I know that on the K&A the whole canal gets walked every few weeks (I think it was every two weeks) and I believe two people are employed to do this. I have also seen them poking a stick into embankments to check the integrity. I assume that the entire system is monitored in this way. 

I would have thought that CaRT would have spotted this if there were any obvious signs that it was about to fail. It would be very interesting to know if it was already on the list of structures not in perfect condition.

...........Dave

Would they publish this info if requested? I'm sure you're correct with your belief that the Canals are walked fortnightly. But by whom? Are they engineers? Are they briefed to look at areas of risk,i.e. Aqueducts for instance?

I'd be surprised this breach wasn't showing any signs of weakness.

Theres a big diffference between proactive and reactive maintenance. proactive can and does save money.

[Arthur Marshall]

Can somone analyse what exactly has happened? I got the impression originally that the aqueduct had collapsed, but it appears that this is adjacent to it rather than it itself.

[Boater Sam]

Can someone pick up my bike? its next to Tamlin  below bridge 30.

Breach is on the straight about 150 yds down stream (Ha Ha) of Stanthorne lock which is the 2nd up from junction with the T&M at Kings lock.

The Wardle canal is the last 45 metres of the Middlewich branch of the Shroppy Middlewich arm.

 

I live above Stanthorne lock, and walk this length regularly. There are worse looking bits of bank on the branch, this one always looked OK but there is a river running below this embankment and it is probably that which has started to damage.

Its going to be tough getting plant in, it will have to come over the farm fields from Coal Pit Lane past the mill house and these fields are planted with spring crops.

[dmr]

17 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Would they publish this info if requested? I'm sure you're correct with your belief that the Canals are walked fortnightly. But by whom? Are they engineers? Are they briefed to look at areas of risk,i.e. Aqueducts for instance?

I'd be surprised this breach wasn't showing any signs of weakness.

Theres a big diffference between proactive and reactive maintenance. proactive can and does save money.

We normally spend winters on the K&A and got to know one of the "asset inspectors" quite well and would often stop for a chat. He appeared to be very knowledgeable though I don't know if he had an engineering qualification, I somehow suspect that he did. Once or twice I reported concerns to him but invariably he was already aware of them.

I think the problem is that the canal system is old, there is a lot of it, and not nearly enough money to maintain it all in top condition so all that CaRT can do is to fix the really bad bits. I am not sure if this is reactive maintenance or minimal pro-active maintenance. I know that they have just done a big repair on the K&A where the embankment had been undermined by badgers, so they do at least fix some things before they fail.

One of the inspectors was often accompanied by a small dog, possibly a Jack, and we always though what a great life for a dog, continual walkies.

.............Dave

[Nightwatch]

I'm not really having a go at the guys on the ground nor CRT as a whole. If matey spots someone dodgy, he presumably reports same to his masters in CRT. This is when CRT can go for it or leave it alone as it's minor. Matey may get a bit disillusioned with his masters and doesn't report anymore as "they never do owt anyway, why should I bother?" A very minor occurance becomes a major issue during may even escalated a breach. It happens in businesses everywhere, why not CRT that are against the wall? Finance is low and by some reports moral is at a low. It's a shame, but perhaps reality.

We have been on the K&A since the end of July. We are keen to leave the canal. Mooring can be difficult, worse than twelve or so years ago when we moored in Newbury. Fresh water taps are fairly rare. No taps between Kintbury and Aldermaston. I'm not prepared to pay Greenham Island £5 for a tank full. 

[GUMPY]

Yes cart have been known to "rescue" boats from one side of a breach/serious stoppage (Aylesbury) however I was refering to them providing accomodation etc.

[john6767]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Yes cart have been known to "rescue" boats from one side of a breach/serious stoppage (Aylesbury) however I was refering to them providing accomodation etc.

I would expect CRT would fund the rescue of the boats, but I can not see them paying out of pocket expenses to the owners.

[zenataomm]

Duplicate Thread, Mods please merge.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

I'm not really having a go at the guys on the ground nor CRT as a whole. If matey spots someone dodgy, he presumably reports same to his masters in CRT. This is when CRT can go for it or leave it alone as it's minor. Matey may get a bit disillusioned with his masters and doesn't report anymore as "they never do owt anyway, why should I bother?" A very minor occurance becomes a major issue during may even escalated a breach. It happens in businesses everywhere, why not CRT that are against the wall? Finance is low and by some reports moral is at a low. It's a shame, but perhaps reality.

We have been on the K&A since the end of July. We are keen to leave the canal. Mooring can be difficult, worse than twelve or so years ago when we moored in Newbury. Fresh water taps are fairly rare. No taps between Kintbury and Aldermaston. I'm not prepared to pay Greenham Island £5 for a tank full. 

I suspect that everything gets reported, I can't imagine a bloke whos job is to monitor the infrastructure is going to not write it all down, thats just leaving himself vulnerable. The problem is that things just don't get fixed. I don't know if its the man on the ground or the big man in the office who prioritises things, but I don't 100% trust the man in the office.

Why is it harder to moor on the K&A?, is it the state of the banks or the ongoing increase in liveaboard boaters? Quite a lot of dredging has been done recently and in some places the banks fixed by reducing the width of the canal which I think is wrong but it does make it easier to moor as it takes away the shallow sloping edge.

Lack of water taps below Kintbury is an issue though many boaters keep off the Kennet anyway. I really think there should be a CaRT tap in Newbury. The Newbury services have never been the same since Bill Fisher gave up his Newbury marina empire. Its not just having to pay, the fact that the new owner turned the winding hole into moorings upset me more as it means going down the lock onto the River to turn which can be difficult.

............Dave

[RAB]

Our share boat is one of those in the pictures. Chester trip this weekend is off!

waiting to see what the plans are, hopefully stop planks and pump re-filling. Can't see how they can get a crane anywhere near most of the boats. If I hear of the plans I'll post an update.

[dmr]

CaRT have just said that they can do nothing yet because the bank is still subsiding but once its settled down they will be offering assistance to boaters.

I hope that they can build a good damn and somehow get the section from Middlewich back in water as otherwise its going to be bad (or even worse) news for the Middlewich FAB festival.

................Dave

[john6767]

For anyone who has not seen the CRT post on Facebook

Quote

As some of you will know, a short section of embankment containing the Shropshire Union Canal, Middlewich Branch, has collapsed overnight, causing water to drain from the canal into the river below. Our emergency engineers were on site all night dealing with the breach, and the canal is currently drained between Stanthorne Lock and Wardle Lock, on the south side of Middlewich town centre, a distance of just over three quarters of a mile. The towpath has also been closed along this stretch. Between 15 and 20 boats are within the drained section and we'll be contacting all the owners today with offers of assistance.
Engineers are on site now trying to understand the cause of the breach and will be making an initial assessment regarding how to progress repairs, likely timescales and costs. Damian.

 

[rgreg]

4 hours ago, dmr said:

This messes up our plans. Currently in Chester and was planning to go back onto the Weaver in a week or so. Will now have to go all the way down to Wolverhampton and all the way back up the T&M.

But, we are CCers so can do this and enjoy it, will probably even pop into Brum for a final pint at the Flapper before it gets demolished. The Middlewich arm is a busy canal and this is going to seriously mess up a lot of peoples plans and holidays and hurt a lot of hire companies. I hope CaRT will try to move really quickly but its a very big hole.

...........Dave

Do you not fancy a pootle up the MSC to the Weaver?

[canals are us?]

I haven't planned my trip yet into the route planner but thought I would go in May or June to Llangollen, but I take it this breach was on route from my mooring near Alrewas on the Trent and Mersey?

Is there any other routes that are not double locks as single handed, so never done a wide lock on my own? Or I should give them a go or share locks.

I certainly hope it can get fixed quickly. Looks a major issue to me. What do cart do if badgers/ rabbits burrow into the bank. Are they euthanized or left to it?

James

Edited March 16, 2018 by canals are us?

[kawaton]

3 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

I haven't planned my trip yet into the route planner but thought I would go in May or June to Llangollen, but I take it this breach was on route from my mooring near Alrewas on the Trent and Mersey?

Is there any other routes that are not double locks as single handed, so never done a wide lock on my own? Or I should give them a go or share locks.

I certainly hope it can get fixed quickly. Looks a major issue to me. What do cart do if badgers/ rabbits burrow into the bank. Are they euthanized or left to it?

James

Just go to Llangollen via S&W and Shroppie

[Boater Sam]

Can someone pick up my bike? its next to Tamlin  below bridge 30.

Breach is on the straight about 150 yds down stream (Ha Ha) of Stanthorne lock which is the 2nd up from junction with the T&M at Kings lock.

The Wardle canal is the last 45 metres of the Middlewich branch of the Shroppy Middlewich arm.

[kawaton]

1 minute ago, Boater Sam said:

Can someone pick up my bike? its next to Tamlin  below bridge 30.

Breach is on the straight about 150 yds down stream (Ha Ha) of Stanthorne lock which is the 2nd up from junction with the T&M at Kings lock.

The Wardle canal is the last 45 metres of the Middlewich branch of the Shroppy Middlewich arm.

Why do you keep posting this? 3rd time now.

[Boater Sam]

T&M to Great Heywood, Staffs & Worcs to Autherley Junction the down the Shroppy to Hurleston  locks and you are on the LLangollen. Not really out of your way, at least you miss the Cheshire locks - Heartbreak Hill.

Sorry for the multi postings, I have an internet problem with breaks and reloads, I go to sleep and leave it alone.

[dmr]

24 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Do you not fancy a pootle up the MSC to the Weaver?

I quite do, or even all the way up to Manchester. I did briefly investigate this a couple of year ago but got put off by the paperwork, admin and cost, but I have heard that the inspection is actually not that arduous. Another option is a Mersey crossing but I don't fancy that as a couple of years ago we watched a little sailing boat approaching Liverpool lock with some tide flowing and it didn't look good. I think a trip via Wolverhampton with a quick detour into Brum is the plan. The fight is continuing but realistically the Flapper is going to be demolished and turned into yet more canal side high rise flats so I think we should go for a final pint there.

................Dave

[Marshian]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Yes cart have been known to "rescue" boats from one side of a breach/serious stoppage (Aylesbury) however I was refering to them providing accomodation etc.

The local authority will have a duty under homelessness legislation towards liveaboards prevented from living aboard by the breach.  I expect they'd offload that duty onto CaRT, tho'.

[canals are us?]

43 minutes ago, kawaton said:

Just go to Llangollen via S&W and Shroppie

 

37 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

T&M to Great Heywood, Staffs & Worcs to Autherley Junction the down the Shroppy to Hurleston  locks and you are on the LLangollen. Not really out of your way, at least you miss the Cheshire locks - Heartbreak Hill.

Sorry for the multi postings, I have an internet problem with breaks and reloads, I go to sleep and leave it alone.

Thank you both for your reply.  I have just looked at a map of the canals and found the same route! In fact I like the Staffs and Worcester and Shroppie as did this route from Norbury wharf when I bought my boat, so can call in to them and see how they are etc.

The pictures of the breach on the laptop makes it look like a huge task to repair. Hope they can repair it in the next 3 months.

James.

Edited March 16, 2018 by canals are us?

[BruceinSanity]

16 minutes ago, Marshian said:

The local authority will have a duty under homelessness legislation towards liveaboards prevented from living aboard by the breach.  I expect they'd offload that duty onto CaRT, tho'.

Why? As we keep saying, CRT is neither a housing authority nor a social service organisation. Mind you, the LA response is likely to be giving them a cardboard box each.

Anyone whose boat is caught would be well advised to ring their insurer, who need to be told anyway if we're looking at craning out, as there may just be consequential damage as a result of the grounding which would lead to a subsequent claim. Many liveaboard policies include provision of alternate accommodation for a few days – our GJW one does.

7 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

Hope they can repair it in the next 3 months.

Not a chance, I'd have thought. It looks a lot like the Dutton breach and that took 18 months, IIRC. Can't tell until the engineers have assessed it though, and there'll be a lot of pressure on to get the Four Counties open again.

[Flyboy]

6 hours ago, WotEver said:

And how long before CaRT slaps overstaying notices on them?

Looking at the pictures, a good opportunity to clear all the dross out of the cut I reckon.

[rgreg]

24 minutes ago, dmr said:

I quite do, or even all the way up to Manchester. I did briefly investigate this a couple of year ago but got put off by the paperwork, admin and cost, but I have heard that the inspection is actually not that arduous. Another option is a Mersey crossing but I don't fancy that as a couple of years ago we watched a little sailing boat approaching Liverpool lock with some tide flowing and it didn't look good. I think a trip via Wolverhampton with a quick detour into Brum is the plan. The fight is continuing but realistically the Flapper is going to be demolished and turned into yet more canal side high rise flats so I think we should go for a final pint there.

................Dave

Now I'm not suggesting anyone should do this, but last year on the Weaver I met a couple who had just arrived from Ellesmere Port via the MSC without any contact with the MSC Company whatsoever! They arranged with the Council to swing the bridge, CRT to let them in at Marsh lock, and just went. Luckily they didn't meet anything or they may have had a bit of explaining to do or, worse still, sort insurance out if something went wrong.