Middlewich Branch breach - Shropshire Union

[john6767]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes a relatively short pound through Middlewich.

 

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

its between the first two locks as you come up from the Trent & Mersey onto the Middlewich branch, or between bridges 27 & 28 if you like.

So lucky nobody was hurt really

You would have thought there would be quite a few boats that were moored there last night.

[frangar]

Just now, john6767 said:

 

You would have thought there would be quite a few boats that were moored there last night.

There’s some more pics of the boats on the Facebook link. It might be a while til they are floating again......I’m guessing a dam & a pipe to fill that section will be the only way. 

[frangar]

Found these on the Facebook thread.

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by frangar

[MoominPapa]

Any purchaser of Elizabeth may have a wait to take delivery!

 

Looking at the breach photos, this has strong echos of the T&M breach - another Cheshire canal built on red sand.

 

MP.

[rgreg]

28 minutes ago, john6767 said:

So how much water has been lost from this, has it drained the SU Main Line from Hack Green to Bunbury as well as the eastern end of the Middlewich branch, or are there stop gates at Barbridge for example?

It is within a pound approx one mile long between two locks so will be contained within that or less if stop planks have been utilised.

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, frangar said:

Found these on the Facebook thread.

 

And how long before CaRT slaps overstaying notices on them?

[The Ents]

It has failed adjacent to the aqueduct over the Wheelock river about 1 mile from Middlewich. Maybe 12 boats stranded.

No one hurt.

Mike

 

[sniffy]

Not being a canal engineer - is that clay on top of sand then ?, presume with some kind of outer retainer ?

 

[frangar]

5 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Any purchaser of Elizabeth may have a wait to take delivery!

 

Looking at the breach photos, this has strong echos of the T&M breach - another Cheshire canal built on red sand.

 

MP.

At least the hull will be an easy inspection!! 

Im so glad 

[Nightwatch]

I find this really sad, lots of things do. But surely (Shirley) someone somewhere would have the experience to detect this was a potential happening. Do CRT not carry out periodic inspections of culverts and bridges. Someone here has mentioned another canal breach on a canal built on sand. Is there no cross referencing. Does a breach like this not start with a bit of dripping water, then a bit of a pour and then a full blown breach? It'll be interesting who and when this area was last inspected.

Can dams be constructed to allow rewatering to get the boats out? Either way east or west. 

[magpie patrick]

16 minutes ago, The Ents said:

 

Did that boat ground or was it extremely well tied up?

I think the technical term for the underlying geology here is "wet rockhead" - on current plans HS2 is going to be built over it

1 minute ago, Nightwatch said:

I find this really sad, lots of things do. But surely (Shirley) someone somewhere would have the experience to detect this was a potential happening. Do CRT not carry out periodic inspections of culverts and bridges. Someone here has mentioned another canal breach on a canal built on sand. Is there no cross referencing. Does a breach like this not start with a bit of dripping water, then a bit of a pour and then a full blown breach? It'll be interesting who and when this area was last inspected.

Can dams be constructed to allow rewatering to get the boats out? Either way east or west. 

The progession you describe does happen, but whilst there is normally some warning it can, in the wrong circumstances, be a matter of minutes between a leak being detectable and a breach

[magictime]

Good grief. That cuts the Four Counties Ring in half, effectively rules out the Shroppie as a route between the North and the Midlands, and puts the Llangollen effectively out of reach for a lot of leisure boaters and hire firms based on the T&M side of the breach - and the Cheshire Ring out of reach for those on the other side of the breach, for that matter. Really bad news.

[MoominPapa]

7 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I find this really sad, lots of things do. But surely (Shirley) someone somewhere would have the experience to detect this was a potential happening. Do CRT not carry out periodic inspections of culverts and bridges. Someone here has mentioned another canal breach on a canal built on sand. Is there no cross referencing. Does a breach like this not start with a bit of dripping water, then a bit of a pour and then a full blown breach? It'll be interesting who and when this area was last inspected.

Can dams be constructed to allow rewatering to get the boats out? Either way east or west. 

I suspect the Springer next to the breach in the photos either gets craned out, or is there for the duration. Winch it over onto the other side of the V hull, and it would be almost level

 

The boats moored above Wardle lock are fairly easy to recover. Stop planks under the last bridge-hole and a pump around Wardle lock will get them floating and able to escape down the lock.

 

MP.

 

[philjw]

Are any of the boats now in such a position that they cannot effectively be lived on? What can be done to take care of their occupants until CRT can rescue the boats? Would CRT put them up?

[Boater Sam]

Can someone pick up my bike? its next to Tamlin  below bridge 30.

Breach is on the straight about 150 yds down stream (Ha Ha) of Stanthorne lock which is the 2nd up from junction with the T&M at Kings lock.

The Wardle canal is the last 45 metres of the Middlewich branch of the Shroppy Middlewich arm.

[Midnight]

8 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

But surely (Shirley) someone somewhere would have the experience to detect this was a potential happening. Do CRT not carry out periodic inspections of culverts and bridges. Someone here has mentioned another canal breach on a canal built on sand. Is there no cross referencing. Does a breach like this not start with a bit of dripping water, then a bit of a pour and then a full blown breach? It'll be interesting who and when this area was last inspected.

It was only yesterday when completing the CaRT survey I wrote "poor maintenance and the potential for major problems is now a big concern when planning a holiday cruise"

Today our early June trip to Chester looks very iffy indeed, unless we go the long way round.

I suspect those in the v-bottom Springer will have trouble making the bed this morning - not good.

[billh]

9 minutes ago, magictime said:

Good grief. That cuts the Four Counties Ring in half, effectively rules out the Shroppie as a route between the North and the Midlands, and puts the Llangollen effectively out of reach for a lot of leisure boaters and hire firms based on the T&M side of the breach - and the Cheshire Ring out of reach for those on the other side of the breach, for that matter. Really bad news.

Cheshire Ring has been busted since  October anyway. Lock 15 at Marple has latest (delayed) reopening  as early May. I'm just about to renew my boat license, am I wasting my money  cos I can't go many places or contributing to fixing the  knackered canal system?

[dmr]

This messes up our plans. Currently in Chester and was planning to go back onto the Weaver in a week or so. Will now have to go all the way down to Wolverhampton and all the way back up the T&M.

But, we are CCers so can do this and enjoy it, will probably even pop into Brum for a final pint at the Flapper before it gets demolished. The Middlewich arm is a busy canal and this is going to seriously mess up a lot of peoples plans and holidays and hurt a lot of hire companies. I hope CaRT will try to move really quickly but its a very big hole.

...........Dave

[GUMPY]

19 minutes ago, philjw said:

Are any of the boats now in such a position that they cannot effectively be lived on? What can be done to take care of their occupants until CRT can rescue the boats? Would CRT put them up?

No nothing will be done, you are very much on your own until the water is back. 

In fact CarT could tell you to leave if it wasnt safe and you would have to make arrangements for your own accommodation 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Loddon

[philjw]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

No nothing will be done, you are very much on your own until the water is back. 

Let's hope that there are no people in such a predicament then and that CRT get the fix in place quickly.  It would be good though if those local boaters who first brought this to the attention of the forum could check on any of the unfortunate crews.

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

No nothing will be done, you are very much on your own until the water is back. 

In fact CarT could tell you to leave if it wasnt safe and you would have to make arrangements for your own accommodation 

I hope you are wrong. I believe that previously CaRT have offered help and I think have even organised Cranes and transport, though only do after some nagging. Lorries. I doubt they will (or even should) pay for accommodation, they are not a housing authority and we choose to live on a boat, they don't put us there, but they should recover the boats. The Springer might be stuck for a while but they are going to have to build access to get some serious plant to the breach so hopefully can rescue the Springer at the same time.

............Dave

[Nightwatch]

The Springer is in the way I reckon. Thinking back the the major breach a few years ago, not far from this breach a massive area had to be cut back and repaired. When we came through that area last year, or was it 2016? you could see the extent of the works. As this includes the aqueduct is it going to be an even bigger task? Such a shame.

i still can't accept that this couldn't have been detected or predicted by a conscientious qualified engineering sort of chappie. Repair is going to be in the millions me thinks.

[Pete of Ebor]

9 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

...Thinking back the the major breach a few years ago, not far from this breach a massive area had to be cut back and repaired. When we came through that area last year, or was it 2016? you could see the extent of the works. As this includes the aqueduct is it going to be an even bigger task? Such a shame.

i still can't accept that this couldn't have been detected or predicted by a conscientious qualified engineering sort of chappie...

... or a good old-fashioned lengthsman .. sorry, lengthsperson.

[magictime]

1 hour ago, billh said:

Cheshire Ring has been busted since  October anyway. Lock 15 at Marple has latest (delayed) reopening  as early May. I'm just about to renew my boat license, am I wasting my money  cos I can't go many places or contributing to fixing the  knackered canal system?

Yes, some pretty serious limitations on cruising while both these problems are ongoing! We brought our boat up from Market Harborough to the Leeds area just recently and the Marple stoppage already meant having to go the long way round to the Huddersfield Narrow. As it happens the T&M was our best route out of the Midlands anyway, but some people might well be facing two significant detours from their preferred route here.

[dmr]

CaRT are actually pretty good at monitoring things. I know that on the K&A the whole canal gets walked every few weeks (I think it was every two weeks) and I believe two people are employed to do this. I have also seen them poking a stick into embankments to check the integrity. I assume that the entire system is monitored in this way. 

I would have thought that CaRT would have spotted this if there were any obvious signs that it was about to fail. It would be very interesting to know if it was already on the list of structures not in perfect condition.

...........Dave