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Chancellor's Spring Statement - Red Diesel


Señor Chris

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54 minutes ago, MartynG said:

White and red diesel may well be low sulphur – very low compared to what it was a few years ago. However the particulates from the exhaust are now regarded as hazardous.

And the absurdity of all this is that there have been huge strides in eliminating all these particulates (regen, DPFs etc) resulting in modern diesels being considerably cleaner than modern petrols. Nevertheless the ‘Diesels are evil’ mantra keeps being trotted out by politicians of all colours. 

22 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Tax on road diesel is already a deterrent. 

Is it? Not to me it isn’t. 

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I think the issue will not be the colour of the diesel but the age and grade of the engine and exhaust. Diesel cars have had to have exhaust filters now for 7 years EUR 5. and now have even more regulation EUR 6  but cement mixers dumped trucks JCB etc, many are way older, up to 20 years is common, and I do not think the regulations for cars apply to them anyway. Boats also do not come under the regulations.

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

And the absurdity of all this is that there have been huge strides in eliminating all these particulates (regen, DPFs etc) resulting in modern diesels being considerably cleaner than modern petrols. Nevertheless the ‘Diesels are evil’ mantra keeps being trotted out by politicians of all colours. 

Its not that clear-cut. For example http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

 

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5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wonder how much diesel "Plant" there is running in London 24/7  on red diesel compared to the number of farm vehicles in a 5 mile band round the perimeter. The place is smothered in construction, just look at cross rail for a start

There is a huge advertising screen just down the road from Titford Pumphouse that faces to the elevated M5 motorway. It is powered entirely by diesel generator in a compound at its base. There is a similar one in the Chinese Quarter by Birmingham Market. Both appear to be running 24/7. Did they not need planning permission? 

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30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

^^^^^^exactly this the new test for cars is going to test exhaust emissions for diesels and I expect a lot of failures as the makers have been telling porkies for years interesting article I read it last year and interesting times ahead for diesel car owners

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I'm grateful for the detail regarding heating oils that several people have given. However, as many such systems will be quite old, why are they not a contributor to pollution? OK, so I know that they use the oil in a different manner from IC engines but they are burning hydro carbon nevertheless.

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Diesel scrappage scheme most ill thought out scheme ever.Trade in your worthless diesel, that is old runs like a good one still giving 62mpg, bodywork not bad and passes mot .But I can have up to £7000 off a brand new one.

 

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18 hours ago, MartynG said:

Tax on road diesel is already a deterrent. 

Is it really?

If you need to go somewhere you put fuel in the car. The price is irrelevant. 

13 hours ago, MartynG said:

Company car drivers are being deterred from diesel due to significant tax increases. 

Looking out of my office window now I can see 15 company cars. All of which are a few months old and diesel.

The tax increase are still not enough to make petrol cars viable. These company cars will do in excess of 100k miles per year for the next two at least possibly three depending how reliable they are. 

With petrol cars that wouldn't be economical sense.

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Interestingly an outlet I am familiar with that has a canalside pump and "forecourt" pump sells 10x more diesel to people claiming it as plant than for boat use.  This isn't guesswork, that is according to the pump logs.

Interestingly a proportion of those "plant" sales go into drums into diesel cars/vans that do not have valid MOT/TAX or insurance. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

Interestingly an outlet I am familiar with that has a canalside pump and "forecourt" pump sells 10x more diesel to people claiming it as plant than for boat use.  This isn't guesswork, that is according to the pump logs.

Interestingly a proportion of those "plant" sales go into drums into diesel cars/vans that do not have valid MOT/TAX or insurance. 

 

 

It is interesting; but how can you tell if the vehicle is not taxed now that the Tax Disc has been abolished?

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2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

It occurs to me that any effects on the vanishingly small "boat diesel fuel" market will be mere collateral damage in any tax or policy changes. Our market is effectively invisible to HMRC and I doubt it has even been considered. 

Last year there was a government consultation on the use of red diesel.  I know a few boaters who responded.

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5 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

Amazing! I tried it out and discovered that RFA 5, which was the number of a Wolseley which my Dad owned for years, still exists - though now attached to a 2016 Mini. I'm not sure exactly why I'm pleased that it lives on, but I am.

I'm not sure what impels you to check the tax status of these cars and van either, but that's your business.

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6 minutes ago, Athy said:

Amazing! I tried it out and discovered that RFA 5, which was the number of a Wolseley which my Dad owned for years, still exists - though now attached to a 2016 Mini. I'm not sure exactly why I'm pleased that it lives on, but I am.

I'm not sure what impels you to check the tax status of these cars and van either, but that's your business.

A man's gotta have a hobby.

Ian.

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Can anybody explain why if I go and thumb through a What Car, (or similar) magazine for their best buys, when they do an "our pick" for their preferred model in the range, it regularly still seems to be a diesel model.

As an example, I looked at estate cars in the middle of the three price ranges they choose to segregate by, where the best buy estate is the Skoda Superb.  However when I looked at "our pick" it was still a diesel model.

This is the kind of car I'd be looking for if I were to replace out now 14 year old Volvo diesel estate with a new model, but the tide seems to have turned so heavily against diesel cars in that 14 years, that I'd need an awful lot of persuasion to buy another one.  These days one is made to feel demonised for having one, even if originally bought when you were encouraged to do so.

As these magazines take licensing, insurance, running costs etc into consideration when making their choice, why do they still seem to regularly recommend diesel over petrol?

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4 minutes ago, ianali said:

A man's gotta have a hobby.

Ian.

Nothing more than curiosity.  I just find it humorous that people go to the effort of creating a story about why they want to buy red diesel (even though they don't need to) only to be seen pouring it into their car at the nearest lay-by.  Of course it helps not to get your car MOT'd if you want to do that, and therefore you're unlikely to be taxed and since any insurance is likely to be invalid as a result there's not much point paying that either.  Some of these vehicles have been doing this for at least the 18 months that they have been visiting the outlet that I work at and I just wonder how they continue to get away with this when I'm sure if my MOT lapsed I'd barely get a mile up the road without getting nicked.

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15 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

Nothing more than curiosity.  I just find it humorous that people go to the effort of creating a story about why they want to buy red diesel (even though they don't need to) only to be seen pouring it into their car at the nearest lay-by.  Of course it helps not to get your car MOT'd if you want to do that, and therefore you're unlikely to be taxed and since any insurance is likely to be invalid as a result there's not much point paying that either.  Some of these vehicles have been doing this for at least the 18 months that they have been visiting the outlet that I work at and I just wonder how they continue to get away with this when I'm sure if my MOT lapsed I'd barely get a mile up the road without getting nicked.

About four years ago we had a car come due its MOT. On checking we found we had completely forgotten its previous years MOT. Drove about 8,000 miles illegally, fortunately without being caught.

Ian.

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5 minutes ago, ianali said:

About four years ago we had a car come due its MOT. On checking we found we had completely forgotten its previous years MOT. Drove about 8,000 miles illegally, fortunately without being caught.

Ian.

Given that police vehicles are fitted with ANPR and many towns also have ANPR cameras dotted about it is still a mystery how this is possible :)

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Generally for high mileage car drivers the fuel of choice has been any may still be diesel. However the tables will be turned. New cars are  generally available with small but powerful turbocharged petrol’s that  can do better than  50mpg while at the same time increasing duty/tax will make  the fuel cost per mile of a petrol engined car more attractive.

There is already a massive slump in demand for new diesel engined cars. This is in part due to increases in personal tax liability if you have a company car and also the tax being increased if you have a diesel company car.  Due to personal tax increases company cars of any type are very liable to become less popular and I think this may already account for  some of   the reduced demand for new diesel cars.   It will not be too long before diesel engines in cars are no longer offered as an option.

What I would like to know is how this may affect the price of diesel for the boat. If demand for diesel fuel falls considerably will that result in a surplus, reducing the price of the fuel? Or will the reduced demand coupled with increased duty cause prices to increase?  I think we can guess the latter is the most likely outcome.

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14 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Generally for high mileage car drivers the fuel of choice has been any may still be diesel. However the tables will be turned. New cars are  generally available with small but powerful turbocharged petrol’s that  can do better than  50mpg while at the same time increasing duty/tax will make  the fuel cost per mile of a petrol engined car more attractive.

There is already a massive slump in demand for new diesel engined cars. This is in part due to increases in personal tax liability if you have a company car and also the tax being increased if you have a diesel company car.  Due to personal tax increases company cars of any type are very liable to become less popular and I think this may already account for  some of   the reduced demand for new diesel cars.   It will not be too long before diesel engines in cars are no longer offered as an option.

What I would like to know is how this may affect the price of diesel for the boat. If demand for diesel fuel falls considerably will that result in a surplus, reducing the price of the fuel? Or will the reduced demand coupled with increased duty cause prices to increase?  I think we can guess the latter is the most likely outcome.

It is all well and good turbo charging a small engine to get more power from it, but when you are slogging it's guts out everyday it isn't going to rack up the miles that a lower revving diesel engine with more torque will.

The diesel engine will be around long after me, you and your grand children are gone.

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5 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

It is all well and good turbo charging a small engine to get more power from it, but when you are slogging it's guts out everyday it isn't going to rack up the miles that a lower revving diesel engine with more torque will.

The diesel engine will be around long after me, you and your grand children are gone.

There are ideas in hand for the production of both diesel and petrol engines cars will be prohibited by 2030 or 2040 .Depends which news you read.

 

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