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Help Needed - Would this housing product work for Canal Boats


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Hi I have been asked to undertake a market analysis for the use of a secondary glazing system used on listed buildings or houses in conservation areas and in all honesty don't know where to start. I won't mention any names but in a typical building the materials used significantly reduce condensation, improve heat retention and sound insulation. Its easy to fit, can be removed when not needed but my question is, would the canal boat owners get the same kinds of benefits particularly regarding condensation. I am not trying to sell any of you anything, I just wanted your opinions as to whether a product of this type would have an useful application on canal boats.

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8 minutes ago, TheColeMan said:

Hi I have been asked to undertake a market analysis for the use of a secondary glazing system used on listed buildings or houses in conservation areas and in all honesty don't know where to start. I won't mention any names but in a typical building the materials used significantly reduce condensation, improve heat retention and sound insulation. Its easy to fit, can be removed when not needed but my question is, would the canal boat owners get the same kinds of benefits particularly regarding condensation. I am not trying to sell any of you anything, I just wanted your opinions as to whether a product of this type would have an useful application on canal boats.

Indeed it would.  But more details are needed.  People use all sorts of methods to insulate boat windows, from taping bubble polythene over them (me!) all the way up to proper double glazing. 

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Maybe. Conventional double glazing isn't common on boats. It is expensive and has a reputation for problems with the seal between panes failing from the vibration when on the move. This leads to moisture and condensation between the panes. Some people use various films and secondary glazing products over winter if they live on board year round to control condensation and retain heat. Depends on the rest of the boats insulation, boat size, window area and the amount of heating power and fixed ventilation they have. Can't say any more without knowing more about the product. Boat windows vary hugely from circular portholes to "bus" style windows. The size is small compared with domestic windows, so the amount of area taken by the perimeter of a secondary glazing system would be important to not decrease the light too much. Frames are typically aluminium channels, or brass for portholes let in and sealed to the steel, or GRP boat cabin sides, with usually hardwood surrounds to the plywood lining.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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Sorry for the lack of detail, I don't want it to look like I am touting for business. I am just trying to establish if there is a market for the product. Essentially, as far as I can tell this a custom cut piece of perspex/acetate that can be made to fit any shape. Fixings are magnetic and with an adhesive back. 

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7 minutes ago, TheColeMan said:

Sorry for the lack of detail, I don't want it to look like I am touting for business. I am just trying to establish if there is a market for the product. Essentially, as far as I can tell this a custom cut piece of perspex/acetate that can be made to fit any shape. Fixings are magnetic and with an adhesive back. 

Sounds similar to various home made efforts people sometimes make, so could win if neat to look at and the price is right. You also need to be aware that a lot of boat windows can open in part. In particular they have hopper sections that flap back when open. Boat sides are usually not vertical, so opening sections are different from house ones to prevent rain getting in. There are various window manufacturers, who also often supply to the specialist vehicle market as well as boating. See http://www.wesleywindows.co.uk/gallery.php for some piccies of typical windows.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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3 minutes ago, TheColeMan said:

Sorry for the lack of detail, I don't want it to look like I am touting for business. I am just trying to establish if there is a market for the product. Essentially, as far as I can tell this a custom cut piece of perspex/acetate that can be made to fit any shape. Fixings are magnetic and with an adhesive back. 

Available on ebay and used by many Narrowboat owners in the winter https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIY-Secondary-Glazing-Kit-Glazing-Panel-Magnetic-Tape-5m/112451133199?hash=item1a2e9c1f0f:m:md-Skgv25P8-_PQXwGLff-Q

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31 minutes ago, TheColeMan said:

Hi I have been asked to undertake a market analysis for the use of a secondary glazing system used on listed buildings or houses in conservation areas and in all honesty don't know where to start. I won't mention any names but in a typical building the materials used significantly reduce condensation, improve heat retention and sound insulation. Its easy to fit, can be removed when not needed but my question is, would the canal boat owners get the same kinds of benefits particularly regarding condensation. I am not trying to sell any of you anything, I just wanted your opinions as to whether a product of this type would have an useful application on canal boats.

Yes.

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31 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

. You also need to be aware that a lot of boat windows can open in part. In particular they have hopper sections that flap back when open.

And in many cases the aluminium brackets which hold the hopper section in the open position project further into the boat than the window surround, meaning that you cannot fix a secondary glazing sheet directly onto the window surround.

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17 minutes ago, TheColeMan said:

Thanks so much for all of your feedback. This is an example of one already fitted. I don't know if this addresses any of the points made. Any comments are really helpful.

IMG_1197.JPG

As others have suggested, you do see that pattern of windows on narrowboats, but only about 1 in every 50 (I'd guess).

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This topic has got me thinking. Why fit double glassing on the inside, why couldn`t it be fitted on the outside. There are some extremely strong magnets available nowadays if a suitable seal could be designed encompassing them. 

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34 minutes ago, jddevel said:

This topic has got me thinking. Why fit double glassing on the inside, why couldn`t it be fitted on the outside. There are some extremely strong magnets available nowadays if a suitable seal could be designed encompassing them. 

It’s usuallly the metal frame that is the issue not the actual glass.

  • Greenie 1
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My immediate visualization is to have them larger than the existing frame this it would possibly require further "holes" in the cabin sides to secure them. Having said that perhaps a permanent frame could be glued on to which the glazing could be fixed during winter. Just needs investigating and a little lateral thinking.

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I fitted acrylic sheets with magnetic tape two winters ago, I had the sheets cut to size for me  6 hoppers and 4 discs for the portholes, I used magnetic tape to attach. I found that by serrating along one edge of the magnetic tape I could get it to bend around the discs and get a good fit.

They are not a complete fix for condensation but work very well and I would now never be without secondary glazing on the windows during winter.  

porthole.JPG

portholes.JPG

Edited by 1agos
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1 minute ago, 1agos said:

I fitted acrylic sheets with magnetic tape two winters ago, I had the sheets cut to size for me  6 hoppers and 4 discs for the portholes, I used magnetic tape to attach. I found that by serrating along one edge of the magnetic tape I could get it to bend around the discs and get a good fit.

They are not a complete fix for condensation but work very well and I would now never be without secondary glazing on the windows during winter.  

How much of a reduction did you see in levels of condensation?

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2 hours ago, TheColeMan said:

Do you think that could be reduced further? A more precise fitting perhaps? or do you think that is as good as it gets?

Most definitely with bespoke double glazing units or maybe using sealant instead of mag tape.

The problem with our hopper windows is they have drain holes. I have thought to try sealing the drain holes during winter to see if it improves things.

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On 13/03/2018 at 12:39, TheColeMan said:

Sorry for the lack of detail, I don't want it to look like I am touting for business. I am just trying to establish if there is a market for the product. Essentially, as far as I can tell this a custom cut piece of perspex/acetate that can be made to fit any shape. Fixings are magnetic and with an adhesive back. 

That describes exactly what I and others have been using for well over 10 years.

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