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vonBenningen

Safety requirements for waterways license

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Hi - I'm looking to buy a boat, an old Viking cruiser, 22ft, that's been moored in one spot for at least the last 6 months. I'll need to attach an outboard motor, since I want to continuously cruise rather than stay in one place - but I'm wondering whether it'll be eligible, safety-wise, for the inland waterways license. 

Is this generally an issue for boats of this type, or is it likely to be a simple process of sticking the motor on the back and getting a new license? 

What are some common reasons for licenses being denied?

Edited by vonBenningen

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No insurance/No Boat Safety Scheme certificate.

 

Bod

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It will have to comply with the Boat Safety Scheme unless it has no gas and no electricity on board plus only the single outboard fuel tank., even then as a cabin boat it may still require an inspection. Hopefully the owner has a current BSS certificate because it might be costly to get it passed. However check the BSS website.

You will also need at least third party insurance to (I think) 5 million pounds (maybe two or thee million).

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Thanks for your help. It has a multi fuel stove, and I would probably install solar panels to charge leisure batteries to power laptop and phone. It may also be leaky at present, through the roof, which is why it's covered with tarpaulins. Does this sound unlikely to pass BSC/insurance requirements?

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At present, the boat is unpowered and the owner says it's just £38/year - to the Environment Agency - to keep it there. Does that sound right for an inhabited houseboat?

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24 minutes ago, vonBenningen said:

At present, the boat is unpowered and the owner says it's just £38/year - to the Environment Agency - to keep it there. Does that sound right for an inhabited houseboat?

OK EA not CRT. so where is it, just the waterway I am surprised it doesnt already have/ need a BSS

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It's on the Thames near Reading, by the Kennet. £38/year for registration just seems so cheap, given that it's basically the equivalent of rent on land. Apparently he got it registered after he just bought it, prior to doing it up and living on it himself. So I would guess the registration cost goes up for an unpowered houseboat as opposed to an unpowered leisure boat (the category he registered in). 

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50 minutes ago, vonBenningen said:

It's on the Thames near Reading, by the Kennet. £38/year for registration just seems so cheap, given that it's basically the equivalent of rent on land. Apparently he got it registered after he just bought it, prior to doing it up and living on it himself. So I would guess the registration cost goes up for an unpowered houseboat as opposed to an unpowered leisure boat (the category he registered in). 

If its on the Thames I am surprised it doesn't have a BSC as I would thought that would be required to licence it, if it is licensed. Its very unlikely such a craft would be licensed as a house boat even if you live on it

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It sounds strange to me, if it is unpowered then presumably if does not move and is on a long term mooring, that would be costly on the Thames I would have thought . If is has a EA licence, then presumably it must have a BSS.

Looking at the EA licence changes then £38.20 is indeed the charge for an unpowerd boat, that is not a launch, tug or houseboat. If you are living on it would that make it a houseboat though, in which case it is £9.80 per square metre, so perhaps £127 for that boat, which still seems very cheap.

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1 minute ago, john6767 said:

 if it is unpowered then presumably if does not move and is on a long term mooring, that would be costly on the Thames I would have thought .

I suspect the vendor is being economical with the truth and telling the cost of the licence and not mentioning the mooring fees, or am I just being cynical.

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1 minute ago, Jerra said:

I suspect the vendor is being economical with the truth and telling the cost of the licence and not mentioning the mooring fees, or am I just being cynical.

 I suspect there are no mooring fees and that this is one of the non moving boats that have led to the introduction of no mooring & fines in the area mentioned. "Thames near Reading, by the Kennet." sounds very much like the section that is also known as "Tescos Reading" which had the signs below plastered over the area last year.

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Just now, Jess-- said:

 I suspect there are no mooring fees and that this is one of the non moving boats that have led to the introduction of no mooring & fines in the area mentioned. "Thames near Reading, by the Kennet." sounds very much like the section that is also known as "Tescos Reading" which had the signs below plastered over the area last year.

5991401b380c5_coalwoodland.jpg.84fbdb277

I did wonder about that, hence the ventor needs to get rid of it, and the person buying it can't leave it there , which I don't think the OP was intending to do.  Just realised the OP intends to add an outboard so that would make it powered and therefore a "launch" so the licence would be something like  £254 per year in that case.  I think the OP needs to make certain they know what they are getting into.

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This is what I'm asking, really - what I'm getting into. £254 for the license? And safety certificate/insurance would be how much on top of that, do you reckon? Regarding the mooring fees, this is what the current owner said: 

I’m moored in Reading Berkshire on the Thames, in Caversham. I’m moored in a small gap between Reading and Wokingham borders, so the bit myself and my neighbour are in is (no mans land), so no mooring fees or any kind of facilities

And about the precise location, he said:

where the Kennet mouth meets the Thames in caversham then I’m there on the corner on the wokingham side. http: thames.me.uk/s01130.htm

 

He said he lived on the boat for the past 6 months so if he is in that zone with the signs about fines, then presumably they don't affect him

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54 minutes ago, vonBenningen said:

 

I’m moored in Reading Berkshire on the Thames, in Caversham. I’m moored in a small gap between Reading and Wokingham borders, so the bit myself and my neighbour are in is (no mans land), so no mooring fees or any kind of facilities

 

He said he lived on the boat for the past 6 months so if he is in that zone with the signs about fines, then presumably they don't affect him

What an absolute load of spherical objects.

I'd suggest that you keep a large chunk of cash readily available - you will need it.

 

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Hi Alan, can you elaborate a little bit? I'm beginning to feel suspicious myself but don't have the knowledge or experience to know whether there's anything to be suspicious about. You appear to know exactly why I should be suspicious. What are you saying, that he's wrong about there being no mooring fees? Personally I don't think he's lying, I just think there's a chance he may not know what he's talking about and has managed to live there (if you say he can't) by luck.

Quote

I'd suggest that you keep a large chunk of cash readily available - you will need it.

What for?

Thanks

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3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its very unlikely such a craft would be licensed as a house boat even if you live on it

Hi ditchcrawler, Can you explain what you mean by this? Why is it unlikely to be licensed as a houseboat even if I live on it? And what does that mean for me (and my money)?

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The description of the location refers to somewhere downstream of the mouth of the Kennet, so it isn't the Tesco moorings. Exactly where the border between Reading and Wokingham reaches the river, and what rules apply there, I don't know, but as the OP says "I want to continuously cruise", apparently the location and its rules won't matter much to him anyway.

What will matter is the licence; if you're just going to wander up and down the Thames that'll be an EA licence; in their terminology any powered boat is called a "launch" I think. Other navigation authorities come into play once you leave the Thames, e.g. to venture into the K&A, the Oxford Canal or the Grand Union you need a CRT licence, or an annual Gold licence which covers CRT and EA.

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the area you describe could be the area I thought it was (if it is just upstream of the kennet entrance it certainly is), When I last passed through in Sept of last year there appeared to be a battle of signs going on with partial remains of the pictured signs all over the place and complete ones that had been removed and thrown over railings etc (presumably working on the argument that if no sign was on display the restriction it detailed couldn't be imposed)

I would imagine (and I am sure if I have it wrong I will be corrected) for licensing as a houseboat it would need to be on a mooring that is approved for permanent residential use (this would involve planning permission and payment of council tax at a minimum)

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26 minutes ago, vonBenningen said:

Hi ditchcrawler, Can you explain what you mean by this? Why is it unlikely to be licensed as a houseboat even if I live on it? And what does that mean for me (and my money)?

At £38 it is licenced as an unpowered boat.  That is a fixed fee not size based, and I would guess is intended for rowing boats, punts etc.  If it is unpower and capable of being lived on, or a few other reasons (you would so well to read the EA licence info) then it is classed as a houseboat.  The licence cost for a houseboat is area based, ie length x width, so assuming 6.7 x 2 if would be 13 square metres and the licence is based on that.  If it has a engine then I would say it becomes a launch, and again has a licence fee based on the area.

Bear in mind that many of the people on this forum have narrowboats and are used the paying a licence fee of close to £1000 per year, and mooring fees between £2000 and £3000 par year, and probably much greater mooring fee in the south and on the Thames.

Whilst the guy selling you the boat is probably telling you that licence cost and that you can stay is this one place for free, that does not mean that any of that is legal even though he is possibly getting away with it.

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6 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

the area you describe could be the area I thought it was (if it is just upstream of the kennet entrance it certainly is)

Yes it's right at the entrance to the Kennet

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that does not mean that any of that is legal even though he is possibly getting away with it.

This is my feeling exactly - could end up with problems down the line. Then again, I don't want to stay in one place anyway

Here's the link to the listing, btw. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Viking-Houseboat/253467127282?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649

Edited by vonBenningen

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10 minutes ago, vonBenningen said:

Thanks for that - never heard of it but yeah, this is exactly what I would be after

So just to help you understand the implications, the gold licence scheme is administrated by CRT on behalf of themselves and EA.  The cost of a gold licence for a 21ft boat is £661

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