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Wooden boats and MCA


magpie patrick

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I'm working with a canal group who have  a plan to build a near replica vessel for their canal and offer boat trips in it, this isn't the Somerset Coal Canal although where this group go we (and others may follow). The boat hasn't left the drawing board yet but already the scheme has a problem with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency because the boat would be wooden and new build. The MCA are saying they are ok-ish with historic wooden vessels but new build they don't like - citing fire risk

I'm looking at fire risk, a horse drawn boat with no need for electricity would seem fairly safe to me. but I was wondereing whether there are any other new-ish, wooden, passenger carrying (as in certified by the MCA) boats around. It's not the sort of thing there is a register of...

Anyone know of one?

Thank you all - payment in beer or chocolate biscuits may be possible for a really good lead!

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10 minutes ago, Chop! said:

How about the John Constable on the river Stour, electrically powered copy of an original Stour lighter, used for passenger carrying.

https://www.riverstourtrust.org/river-trips/john-constable-lighter/

I think officially that was a restoration, just like triggers broom.

  • Greenie 1
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There is the Chesterfield canal cuckoo boat Dawn Rose. New and wooden, to a traditional design. There may be some old ironwork in there to make it a restoration, even if 99.9% is new. Don't know if non society members are allowed on board, but I've seen them being used to tow it on sponsored pulls. Don't know if it falls within the MCA remit, but worth asking the canal soc.

Steel and GRP hulls are mostly wood lined and the wood will burn. GRP will burn down to the waterline once it is alight. By the time the heavy hull planks and framing of a wood boat are alight, then everyone is either on the bank, or dead.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
  • Greenie 1
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Maria was certificated with the MCA and predecessors as a 50 seat horse drawn  trip boat from 1978 to 1998. The MCA have very little experience of the construction of wooden canal boats and were not unduly concerned with the boat. They were much more interested  in the experience , qualifications  and health of the crew, in particular, the person in charge of the vessel . Testing the crew and operating methods was quite  amusing: An emergency stop (with a horse!) and full passenger evacuation onto the towpath for instance. Another thing was getting approval to leg the boat through Hyde Bank tunnel with a full complement of passengers. The inspector was minded not  to allow this , but the presence of a TV news team influenced his decision in a very  positive way.:)

The fatal  accident on the Thames with the trip boat and dredger caused a big upturn in application of rules and regulations, many of which were not really relevant to shallow, narrow canals and served merely to make tripboating  unprofitable . 

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There are quite a number of new wooden 'replicas' in use on the continent. There is a Roman wineship on the Mosel which provides passenger trips, and in France there are numerous wooden boats, many of which are used by passengers. The first photo shows a few of the boats at a Loire Festival, held every two years at Orleans.

Loire Festival.jpg

Mosel wine boat.jpg

Edited by Pluto
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15 minutes ago, Pluto said:

There are quite a number of new wooden 'replicas' in use on the continent. There is a Roman wineship on the Mosel which provides passenger trips, and in France there are numerous wooden boats, many of which are used by passengers. The first photo shows a few of the boats at a Loire Festival, held every two years at Orleans.

Loire Festival.jpg

Mosel wine boat.jpg

As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, the French have a much more sensible attitude to safety and personal responsibility than one finds on your side of the channel.

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In 1993 the replica Greek trireme Olympias visited London.  I remember marvelling at its manoeuvrability as it zoomed up and down the Thames.  

(By the way, today it's at Piraeus - well worth a visit).

110150211.jpg.e831c84e2d92bd8d30d8208b74e75a21.jpg

Edited by koukouvagia
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7 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, the French have a much more sensible attitude to safety and personal responsibility than one finds on your side of the channel.

But not Germany, where the Roman boat on the Mosel operates.

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Further to my comments about Dawn Rose. The Chesterfield Canal Trust run several steel hull trip boats for the public, so will be familiar with dealing with the MCA. They should be able to give an answer if Dawn Rose is registered with the MCA and what hoops they had to jump through, or if they decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

Jen

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Although not the same issue, a group it might be worth talking to for general advice on persuading the MCA to accept something unusual would be the Sea Change Sailing Trust based in Maldon. They are currently building (edit: in steel) a brand new Thames sailing barge to carry cargo under pure sail - no auxillary engine at all. I gather that, as you might imagine, this has involved some rather interesting discussions with the MCA.

Edited by Giant
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In 1993 the replica Greek trireme Olympias visited London.  I remember marvelling at its manoeuvrability as it zoomed up and down the Thames.  

(By the way, today it's at Piraeus - well worth a visit).

110150211.jpg.e831c84e2d92bd8d30d8208b74e75a21.jpg

wot?  .....   no safety rails or lifejackets.  disgusting.     ................   by the way, I can only count 2 banks of oars. ...... or do those little white paddles count as a third bank?   :rolleyes:

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  by the way, I can only count 2 banks of oars. ...... or do those little white paddles count as a third bank?   :rolleyes:

 I can't find my pictures from the time, but here are a couple of better pictures I took in Greece.

The video of the boat on the Thames shows the three banks more clearly (1:13 onwards)

P1190325.jpg.c303efc70f6505cdb4012956421fd23e.jpgP1190332.jpg.2894e83e27d20a22f484cbd40badcfad.jpg

Edited by koukouvagia
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/10/2018 at 22:07, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is the Chesterfield canal cuckoo boat Dawn Rose. New and wooden, to a traditional design. There may be some old ironwork in there to make it a restoration, even if 99.9% is new. Don't know if non society members are allowed on board, but I've seen them being used to tow it on sponsored pulls. Don't know if it falls within the MCA remit, but worth asking the canal soc.

 

Jen

Dawn Rose, the Chesterfield Boat is not a trip boat and so does not require registration. The "boat pulls" are done by groups who are on the towpath. It is Python that follows the entourage providing welfare facilities for the teams should they need a drink, a toilet, a rest or first aid. 

On 3/11/2018 at 17:50, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Further to my comments about Dawn Rose. The Chesterfield Canal Trust run several steel hull trip boats for the public, so will be familiar with dealing with the MCA. They should be able to give an answer if Dawn Rose is registered with the MCA and what hoops they had to jump through, or if they decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

Jen

All Chesterfield Canal Trust's trip boats are licensed for a maximum of 12 passengers. 

This is the critical number when it comes to the number of hoops that need to be jumped through for both the boat and the crew with regard to the amount of certification required to operate the vessel 

If you wish to keep the costs down and the number of hoop down then do not exceed 12 passengers 

P.S. - we found the surveyor Mike Carter a very helpful consultant when we were looking at replacing the trip boat John Varley. 

His extensive knowledge of the way insurance companies work means he can often give some insight on where to focus your attention and efforts 

  • Greenie 1
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Thanks all - as I thought, nothing New (although some restorations that involved replacing almost everything!)

CR - thanks for the info on Dawn Rose, I'd wondered about that one. Also I may give Mike Carter a call.

Giant - thanks for that, I think bespoke discussions will be the way to go

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