Wigan Flight 10 week trial

[Pie Eater]

From Monday 19th March 2018 Top lock 65 and Bottom lock 85 will only be opened as follows :-

8.00am until 9.00am daily for entry onto the flight.

12.00 noon until 1.00pm daily for entry/exit on the flight.

5.00pm until 6.00pm daily for exit off the flight.

The above locks will be locked outside of these times.

Poolstock locks, Pagefield lock and Ell Meadow lock will be locked from overnight from 8.00pm until 8.00am.

The trial will run until Thursday 31st May 2018.

Info from CaRT

[TheBiscuits]

I think that will work quite well.  Last year's 8-9AM then 1-2PM timings worked better than leaving the flight open all the time.

More boats shared due to only being allowed on/off the flight during a one hour window, but it was an annoyingly early start if you wanted to set off from (say) Crooke or Adlington and do Wigan flight.

I remember @DRP got caught out by the bottom lock being open at 2PM then got locked on the flight, and this new system should prevent that.

For anyone that gets to Wigan junction around 6PM, stop in the dry dock pound (below Henhurst lock) and walk to Wigan Central bar! 

 

[jonathanA]

Seems odd to me that they can resource all that locking up and unlocking activity but can’t have a keeper or two over seeing the flight which would solve a lot of issues.

hopefuily the winter maintenance will have made a difference  or will the ‘vandals’ still be draining the pounds every night...

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Seems odd to me that they can resource all that locking up and unlocking activity but can’t have a keeper or two over seeing the flight which would solve a lot of issues.

hopefuily the winter maintenance will have made a difference  or will the ‘vandals’ still be draining the pounds every night...

It's one bloke with a padlock key, six times a day.  He usually checks and clears the bywashes while he is there too, as that's part of his job.

Encouraging boats to share more made a world of difference to the flight last year and the twice a day passage plan will remove the only real complaint I heard about.

[jonathanA]

Yep done them on our own and sharing 

sharing is better ! 

Still not sure what the padlocker is doing for the rest of his/their shift ? What problem are Crt solving or is the thinking that it will better then just having the flight as a free for all ? 

CRT are to be commended for trying something at least. 

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Yep done them on our own and sharing 

sharing is better ! 

Still not sure what the padlocker is doing for the rest of his/their shift ? What problem are Crt solving or is the thinking that it will better then just having the flight as a free for all ? 

CRT are to be commended for trying something at least. 

The sharing was encouraged last year because you could only start working the flight between 8-9AM, so if there was more than one narrowboat they would nearly always share.  Any boats coming the opposite way you would tend to meet in the middle, so half the flight was set in your favour (in theory!)

The padlocker is not a new employee - it's been Joe the last four times we did the flight - who has been working for BW and then CRT for years.  I don't know all his duties, but he is the bloke you usually see raking debris out of bywashes etc in the Wigan area. 

The main stated reason for trying it last year was water management.  Instead of a boat going down and then another boat going down a few hours later and having to refill the flight due to leakage, the flight was only getting fully filled once at day at 8AM.

It seemed to work very well, but some people would turn up at lunchtime and have to wait until the following day to do the flight, which caused a few grumbles from boaters.  That is why I think two passages will work better for boaters, even if it means Joe will have to lock & unlock the top & bottom locks once more a day.

[Pie Eater]

14 hours ago, jonathanA said:

Yep done them on our own and sharing 

sharing is better ! 

Still not sure what the padlocker is doing for the rest of his/their shift ? What problem are Crt solving or is the thinking that it will better then just having the flight as a free for all ? 

CRT are to be commended for trying something at least. 

One passage I missed from the information states that " roving lock keepers will be on the Wigan Flight daily to oversee the passages and ensure that water levels are maintained. This is not an assisted passage and staff will be around to help customers when needed ".

[DRP]

Why can't CRT pull their fingers out and fix the leakages?

This is a CRT management issue, not the fault of the employees on the ground.The broken ground paddle on the bottom lock at Poolstock, with resulting constant silting up causing the top gate to be impossible to open, has been an issue for at least three years.Local staff have cleared it with a sludge pump when given notice, but this is not an answer.

The management has been using the fatuous story about  nocturnal vandals deliberately draining pounds, but every body knows it is a combination of leaky gates and careless boaters leaving paddles up that is the cause of water loss. This could be sorted by a single trip up or down the flight after lock up to check all paddles are down.

Additionally, fairly casual inspection of the gates reveals that most of them have damage to the mitres 10 to 24 inches above the surface of the water. Any body guess what's causing that? If you're not very good at steering a 6ft 10ins boat through a gap of 7ft or more, maybe you could open both gates before coming out of, or going in to locks.

The fact remains that most of the blame for the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with CRT, and the irksome restrictions on use of the flight do nothing to encourage people to visit the Leeds & Liverpool canal. on several occasions we have seen people arrive at the bottom of the flight with hours of daylight to spare, and some luckless lock keeper on the receiving end of their dissatisfaction. Don't CRT understand that boaters are not all retired "baby-boomers" whose time can just be wasted willy-nilly? Many visitors,especially hire-boaters have only a limited time for their holiday, and don't want to waste half a day or more of it hanging about in some unprepossessing bit of Wigan.

Perhaps CRT has the ultimate goal of making the canal so unattractive to visitors that they have an excuse to do even less maintenance than they do at present.

 

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, DRP said:

Why can't CRT pull their fingers out and fix the leakages?

This is a CRT management issue, not the fault of the employees on the ground.The broken ground paddle on the bottom lock at Poolstock, with resulting constant silting up causing the top gate to be impossible to open, has been an issue for at least three years.Local staff have cleared it with a sludge pump when given notice, but this is not an answer.

The management has been using the fatuous story about  nocturnal vandals deliberately draining pounds, but every body knows it is a combination of leaky gates and careless boaters leaving paddles up that is the cause of water loss. This could be sorted by a single trip up or down the flight after lock up to check all paddles are down.

Additionally, fairly casual inspection of the gates reveals that most of them have damage to the mitres 10 to 24 inches above the surface of the water. Any body guess what's causing that? If you're not very good at steering a 6ft 10ins boat through a gap of 7ft or more, maybe you could open both gates before coming out of, or going in to locks.

The fact remains that most of the blame for the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with CRT, and the irksome restrictions on use of the flight do nothing to encourage people to visit the Leeds & Liverpool canal. on several occasions we have seen people arrive at the bottom of the flight with hours of daylight to spare, and some luckless lock keeper on the receiving end of their dissatisfaction. Don't CRT understand that boaters are not all retired "baby-boomers" whose time can just be wasted willy-nilly? Many visitors,especially hire-boaters have only a limited time for their holiday, and don't want to waste half a day or more of it hanging about in some unprepossessing bit of Wigan.

Perhaps CRT has the ultimate goal of making the canal so unattractive to visitors that they have an excuse to do even less maintenance than they do at present.

 

It seems to me from the evidence you cite that the blame for 'the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with incompetent boaters . . . 

OTOH I don't quite see how damage to the gates above the water line contributes to water loss but perhaps you meant something else.

[DRP]

Clue: the widest bit of a narrow boat.

You're right, I was saying a lot of the blame for the damage lies with boaters; but they're not the ones responsible for making repairs, and most of the repairs to locks in Wigan and surrounding area have been outstanding for several years.If jobs are prioritised at CRT headquarters, then local management should be banging the drum harder.

[rgreg]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

It seems to me from the evidence you cite that the blame for 'the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with incompetent boaters . . . 

OTOH I don't quite see how damage to the gates above the water line contributes to water loss but perhaps you meant something else.

It won't be above the waterline of the bottom gates if the lock is full. 

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

It seems to me from the evidence you cite that the blame for 'the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with incompetent boaters . . . 

OTOH I don't quite see how damage to the gates above the water line contributes to water loss but perhaps you meant something else.

Some of the tail gates have a 4 inch deep groove in the gate mitre.  On the head gates this does not matter as it is always above the water level.  On the tailgates when the lock is full, for example if someone has gone up the flight, the lock drains out of these holes.

Note that Wigan locks are typically 62ft x 15ft x about 9ft, so 2/3rds of ~80,000 gallons drains out through these holes every time the lock is left full.  Don't think of narrow locks with a 4ft rise - think four times that every time.

[Nick D]

We are planning to go up the flight on or around the 16th April if anyone wants to share?

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, DRP said:

Clue: the widest bit of a narrow boat.

You're right, I was saying a lot of the blame for the damage lies with boaters; but they're not the ones responsible for making repairs, and most of the repairs to locks in Wigan and surrounding area have been outstanding for several years.If jobs are prioritised at CRT headquarters, then local management should be banging the drum harder.

I did see a fat boat scrape both gate mitres a couple of years ago, but it did it a bit lower down than most narrowboats do ...

 

[DRP]

11 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I did see a fat boat scrape both gate mitres a couple of years ago, but it did it a bit lower down than most narrowboats do ...

 

Could have been because the gates wouldn't go back, because of lack of maintenance.Sometimes, old fat boats have to paint their rubbing strips with stern tube grease,just to get anywhere.

You'll know how I know that.

[ditchcrawler]

I wish I could catch the bugger on the S Oxford with a 3ft 6in boat who only open one gate and wears the miters

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wish I could catch the bugger on the S Oxford with a 3ft 6in boat who only open one gate and wears the miters

[Pagefield]

On ‎23‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 17:20, Mike Todd said:

It seems to me from the evidence you cite that the blame for 'the shocking state of the Wigan flight lies with incompetent boaters . . . 

OTOH I don't quite see how damage to the gates above the water line contributes to water loss but perhaps you meant something else.

Damage above waterline looking from inside

 

 

 

Looking from outside.

Happy St David's day

Note how much the level above drops during that one operation.

[Pie Eater]

Probably due to all the passing canoes from the new Leeds and Liverpool canoe trail.

[Aguila]

7 hours ago, Pagefield said:

 

Note how much the level above drops during that one operation.

Aren't those gate paddles open ? 

 

[Pagefield]

59 minutes ago, Aguila said:

Aren't those gate paddles open ? 

 

Yes.  Ground paddles also.

Were it to be left like that, or the headgates left open, the pound would soon drain off due to the leaking tailgates.

Filling the chamber takes a big lump out of the pound above, which is rather short, and shallow on the offside.  Let alone the amount of water lost due to leakage.

In that instance the lock was filled rather quickly as there wasn't a boat rising in it.

Imagine what happens if someone unaware of the tailgate situation tried filling the chamber from one side only. i.e. just using the paddles on the nearside.  By the time the water levels, the pound is very low.

Also consider what happens if another boat, or pair together are following behind.

Incidentally, the lock below that one is worse and the one above not much better.  The one pictured is Lock 73, or the ninth in old money.  So it can be beneficial if boats are starting off from each end at something like the same time and meeting in the middle.  That's if those heading up are lucky enough to have someone heading down and bringing water with them.

[Pluto]

Historically, L&LC gates had rubbing pieces to keep boats away from the mitre when entering or leaving a lock. Besides the obvious one on the gate itself, there should be a second, seen below the man on the left, and these prevented most damage to top gates by boats. It was considered very important to protect the mitre, and to ensure that it fitted exactly every time. To achieve this, many gates had slapping posts, there is one behind the balance beam on the left. The gate was closed until the beam hit the slapping post, ensuring that the mitre was in the same position every time, stopping the corners of the mitre from being rubbed and rounded off. The rubbing pieces on the lower gates were what kept boats away from that mitre, with the lock stonework sometimes being narrower outside the chamber to provide similar protection. With narrow boats, if just one gate is opened, there is no protection for the mitre and this will result in the mitre becoming worn, particularly towards the bottom of lower gates.

Wigan Locks also suffer because mining subsidence has caused a number of the chambers to become distorted, making the gates hard to fit and work, and resulting in more leakage. On at least three occasions, the canal company undertook major works on the flight to equalise the fall of the locks - at one time the top lock had a fall of 15 feet 6 inches, which caused excessive water usage each time a boat passed through. I always find this flight interesting, as you can identify which locks have to have had their falls altered. The changes are mostly at the upper end of the flight, with the equalisation resulting in the shallow lock half way down the flight.

[ditchcrawler]

The subject of this trial was mentioned at the AWCC AGM last week, it was felt to be a big improvement on the last effort.

[Pagefield]

Lock 71 is interesting.  The offside gate  (steel) got bent last year. So there's a bit of a gap at the bottom.

But when enough water is put in the chamber, the gap closes.  

Again, if someone tries to fill the chamber too slowly from one side, the water in the pound gets very low.

 

[Pagefield]

Lock 85 AKA 21 also has worn mitres on the tailgates.  The offside (right in this pic) worn more than the nearside!  This can be problematic when someone unaware of the hole in the back, again tries to do the lock using the nearside paddles only.  Without all four paddles up, it can take quite a bit of effort to open the headgate.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Pagefield
Got left & right mixed up