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Canaline engine overheating (I think...)


pedroinlondon

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Hi all

Over last week's very cold spell the light on the engine temperature warning light came on, accompanied by the it's sister, the terrifying beeeeeping sound.

I switched the engine off and hoped that the complaint was about the ridiculously low temperature, but as switched it on again last night it happened again. I'm now guessing the engine is overheating and not very cold. (Sorry for not knowing much about engines by the way).

So which one is it and what are the most likely causes of this?

Thanks a lot

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Had you put in anti-freeze before the 'big-freeze' ?

It is possible that you engine froze and cracked the block, or you ran it with no water circulating and distorted the head, there at lots of possibilities - few 'good ones'.

Checks to do :

1) Take of the cap where you put in the oil - look under the cap, is it nice and clean 'oily' or is it creamy-white oily?

2) Is there still water in the system ?

3) is there any water and/or oil in the bilge ?

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Whilst one can not rule overheating out the more likely explanation is a faulty overheat sender. The questions to be answered are:

1. How much water was/is in the header tank?

2. Was there any signs of stem coming form the header tank/engine?

3. Was any part of the engine smoking or discoloured?

4. Are there any stains or drips indicating leaking hoses and joints?

5. Are there any stains/drips visible below the top engine water pump pulley?

6. When did you last bleed the skin tank.

If the answers to 1 is "plenty, and 2 to 5 is "no" then its probably either a  faulty overheat switch or a wire has chaffed through between light and sender and is shorting to something metal. There may be a short in the multi-plug in the main engine harness but I would suggest this is not a typical symptom.

 

Alan's point about antifreeze is a good one. If the solution were not strong enough ice crystals could have formed in the coolant and packed behind the thermostat or in the water pump and stopped circulation. If it really was an overheat wax might have been expelled from the thermostat so it is now opening at too high a temperature.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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18 minutes ago, pedroinlondon said:

I cannot recall the ratio but it was at the recommended one on the container.

The container recommendations would normally suggest different 'strengths' to give different levels of protection - example :

10% mix protection to 0 degrees

20% mix protection to -10 degrees

30% mix protection to -20%

50% mix protection to -37 degrees

(Numbers given are just examples plucked out of thin air)

A figure I do know is that 50/50 mixture of ethylene glycol and distilled water will give protection down to -37 degrees C and boiling protection to +129 degrees C

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Now, here's a daft response from a quack who's gone to the dogs but I have never really thought about this issue. I have a temperature gauge which shows a temperature somewhere on the engine, so that would help identify a possible cause. I assume the OP doesn't have a temperature gauge. A few of us are now buying these infrequent red thermometers. A question to Tony. Is the temperature of the top of header tank consistent enough to be measured and that reading used to say if there is an over heating problem? Summer to winter variation? If the thermostat is not opening properly then the header will be cooler but the head or block hotter so interesting to measure temperature lower down. Not much use for the OP as he will not know what 'normal' is. What is the head temperature likely to be when operating at normal temp or when overheated? Any ball park guesses?

 

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possibly a silly question...

how long is it after starting the engine (from cold) before the alarm triggers (light / buzzer), if it's instant this would point to a faulty sensor rather than an engine fault.

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19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Now, here's a daft response from a quack who's gone to the dogs but I have never really thought about this issue. I have a temperature gauge which shows a temperature somewhere on the engine, so that would help identify a possible cause. I assume the OP doesn't have a temperature gauge. A few of us are now buying these infrequent red thermometers. A question to Tony. Is the temperature of the top of header tank consistent enough to be measured and that reading used to say if there is an over heating problem? Summer to winter variation? If the thermostat is not opening properly then the header will be cooler but the head or block hotter so interesting to measure temperature lower down. Not much use for the OP as he will not know what 'normal' is. What is the head temperature likely to be when operating at normal temp or when overheated? Any ball park guesses?

 

I can't answer that question because it depends upon how the header tank is plumbed into the system.

If its the exhaust manifold then once the thermostat has opened the temperature would be all but the same as the top of the engine but NOT if it has a heat exchanger core. If it is a heat exchanger then one end is likely to be close to engine temperature but the other end may be a bit lower.

If its a remote header tank then if it is fed by a single pipe it is unlikely to give an accurate reading but if it has two pipes on it, discounting any overflow pips, thene as long as coolant is circulating through it then it should give pretty much the same temperature. BUT again it all depends where those pipe come from. If one comes form the engine side of the thermostat then the temperature should be pretty much the same as engine temperature but if it comes from the skin tank side then it will remain cold until the thermostat opens.

Personally I would just point it at the cylinder head close to the thermostat housing.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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I reckon, here we go, you may have an air lock somewhere. Ensure the header is topped up, keep checking it, don't replace the cap, start engine and it might burp up its own 'wind'. When it does burp the water in the header may disappear. Top up accordingly.

in addition try patting the rocker cover gently saying nice things to it.

Edited by Nightwatch
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49 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I reckon, here we go, you may have an air lock somewhere. Ensure the header is topped up, keep checking it, don't replace the cap, start engine and it might burp up its own 'wind'. When it does burp the water in the header may disappear. Top up accordingly.

in addition try patting the rocker cover gently saying nice things to it.

And bleed the skin tank every once in a while, especially while trying to vent air.

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I can't answer that question because it depends upon how the header tank is plumbed into the system.

If its the exhaust manifold then once the thermostat has opened the temperature would be all but the same as the top of the engine but NOT if it has a heat exchanger core. If it is a heat exchanger then one end is likely to be close to engine temperature but the other end may be a bit lower.

If its a remote header tank then if it is fed by a single pipe it is unlikely to give an accurate reading but if it has two pipes on it, discounting any overflow pips, thene as long as coolant is circulating through it then it should give pretty much the same temperature. BUT again it all depends where those pipe come from. If one comes form the engine side of the thermostat then the temperature should be pretty much the same as engine temperature but if it comes from the skin tank side then it will remain cold until the thermostat opens.

Personally I would just point it at the cylinder head close to the thermostat housing.

 

 

Thanks Tony. I will have a play and jot down some temps. Maybe useful if I then run into problems like the OP. Ta.

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Brethren, apologies for the anti climax but the light and alarm stopped doing it.

No unusual amount of water or oily water on the engine bilge, no signs or discolouration or unusual smells of any kind.

I checked the oil cap inside, topped up the tank which took only about a glass full of water and ran the engine for 15 minutes. Nothing happened. No unusual smells and no alarm.

I'll run it for longer over the weekend, but it seems that the cause may have been an air lock or an earthing wire that moved and stopped creating the issue so to speak.

I'll keep on monitoring it and will ask the engineer to look into the issue when he visits for a general inspection, possibly in April.

Don't you just love when problems fix themselves?

Many thanks for the suggestions. I'll saved this thread for future reference.

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Personally - NO.

Intermittent faults are a pain - Has it just 'jiggled' itself, and will 'jiggle' back again at an inappropriate / inconvenient time ?

I'd rather fix something and know its fixed.

add to that... if the alarm goes off when you're pushing against flow on a river or halfway through a long tunnel has it jiggled itself off again or is your engine about to go bang?

my only experience with overheating on y own boat was due to an airlock in the skin tank, at normal revs (1300 rpm+) it was all fine, at tickover (950-1000 rpm) you could watch the temperature climb, of course this wasn't found until I was single handed and on a fairly tight schedule at about 6am so I just pushed on with higher revs to keep the temp down, I suspect that I annoyed a good number of boaters by drifting past them out of gear but sounding like I was shifting fairly quickly (one came out and swore at me to slow down, then noticed a complete lack of prop wash... muttered something and went back inside)

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15 hours ago, Glynn said:

Is it a factory fitted Collingwood boat ?.

Yes it is

35 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

add to that... if the alarm goes off when you're pushing against flow on a river or halfway through a long tunnel has it jiggled itself off again or is your engine about to go bang?

my only experience with overheating on y own boat was due to an airlock in the skin tank, at normal revs (1300 rpm+) it was all fine, at tickover (950-1000 rpm) you could watch the temperature climb, of course this wasn't found until I was single handed and on a fairly tight schedule at about 6am so I just pushed on with higher revs to keep the temp down, I suspect that I annoyed a good number of boaters by drifting past them out of gear but sounding like I was shifting fairly quickly (one came out and swore at me to slow down, then noticed a complete lack of prop wash... muttered something and went back inside)

Well, yes. But as I won't be using the engine for battery charging any time soon and I will only be cruising for about one mile this weekend and one more mile two weeks after that (yes, one of those bridge hoppers :) ) the situation is not desperate. I do need to know how to fault find this kind of thing if it happens again though.

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Is the calorifier in the engine hole ? 

Mine and a few others did the same, it was the connection from rigid plastic water pipe where it joins to flexible pipe directly underneath the engine front lower pully. It has a leak and caused the same problem you have. Tightening it fixed the problem.

Edited by Glynn
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/9/2018 at 20:56, Glynn said:

Is the calorifier in the engine hole ? 

Mine and a few others did the same, it was the connection from rigid plastic water pipe where it joins to flexible pipe directly underneath the engine front lower pully. It has a leak and caused the same problem you have. Tightening it fixed the problem.

No calorifier.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, it was the humble air filter the culprit.

I'm not going to reveal how many times I changed it (or not) over the last few years as no one would believe me ?, but I cruised for about one hour after changing is an no complaints from the heat sensor and alarm.

 

So there.

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On 01/05/2018 at 10:38, pedroinlondon said:

Well, it was the humble air filter the culprit.

I'm not going to reveal how many times I changed it (or not) over the last few years as no one would believe me ?, but I cruised for about one hour after changing is an no complaints from the heat sensor and alarm.

 

So there.

Why are you changing the air filter so often, was it clogged up badly or collapsed ?   How many hours between changes ?

Edited by Flyboy
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