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commissioning water system after long lay up


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7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Nahhh. It’s a Glow Warm 18hxi. I think it would have been about 10 or 12 years ago now. How long have they been made?

 

Hmmm don't really know. I think they were around back in 2002 when I re-qualified as a gas bod, but a pretty new model then.

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11 hours ago, WotEver said:

Nahhh. It’s a Glow Warm 18hxi. I think it would have been about 10 or 12 years ago now. How long have they been made?

I had one fitted in 2005 at my old house. Don't know how long they had been in production before that.

Gave me 9 years of trouble free service before I moved to our present house.

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15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I suspect it is just something made up by BG actually. BS 5440 part 1 deals with flues and was revised in 2000, 2005 and 2008 as far as I can discover. So no recent changes unless I'm googling wrong. If you actually want to read it you'll have to stump up £147 for a copy or it might be available on line at Manchester City Library

Looked at the relevant section (thanks, Manchester) and it refers to “in line with manufacturer’s instructions” several times. So I also just skimmed through the Baxi flue installation instructions. I can’t see this ‘regulation’ anywhere. So I’m tending to agree with you that someone’s dreamed this one up.

I’ll see what transpires tomorrow. 

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20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Looked at the relevant section (thanks, Manchester) and it refers to “in line with manufacturer’s instructions” several times. So I also just skimmed through the Baxi flue installation instructions. I can’t see this ‘regulation’ anywhere. So I’m tending to agree with you that someone’s dreamed this one up.

I’ll see what transpires tomorrow. 

 

Yes that's another good point. In the world of gas, the MI trump everything. If installed in accordance with the MI and they happen to contradict any of the BSs or other 'guidance', the MI wins. So a good line of argument to take with BG. 

Another idea is for you to call the customer help line at GSR. Answered by people who have to give accurate advice. You may well get the line peddled to you that the opinion of the 'engineer' on site is what counts but I'd counter this if I were you by leading them to tell you first that MI is king.

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Ahah! Further searching shows that MI states “Ensure that at least one fixing bracket supports each extension pipe used.”

So... BG didn’t do the original installation correctly. Result!

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He will say "additional brackets impossible to fit, therefore still AR", I predict...

:giggles:

You are probably correct, this whole thing looks too much like BS's "we want and excuse to sell you a new boiler" to me (without any gas qualifications). However From the description we have been given I don't think that is true as long  as the requirement is for suitable support and not for he use of a designated bracket. I must have fabricated hundreds of support brackets over the years so suit all sorts of locations and services. Possibly difficult to fit but I doubt impossible. I suspect the average BG bod would take the easy option every time while they think they can get away with it.

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update - I tried to pump them up in situ and it didn't work - I then realised that the system wasn't isolated to aid removal so I have now fitted 2 stop taps on the boat side so when the new accumulator arrives I can change it easily - I am going to fit one and then have the old one on the bench to investigate better - certainly the valves alone cant be replaced. 

More as/when it happens.....................

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34 minutes ago, Halsey said:

update - I tried to pump them up in situ and it didn't work - I then realised that the system wasn't isolated to aid removal so I have now fitted 2 stop taps on the boat side so when the new accumulator arrives I can change it easily - I am going to fit one and then have the old one on the bench to investigate better - certainly the valves alone cant be replaced. 

More as/when it happens.....................

Why can't the valves be replaced they are only screw in car tyre ones.

Neil.

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22 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

Why can't the valves be replaced they are only screw in car tyre ones.

Neil.

I'll have a better look when out but they seem to be "welded" in - spannering didn't move it at all even though it turned................

watch this space..............

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1 minute ago, Halsey said:

I'll have a better look when out but they seem to be "welded" in - spannering didn't move it at all even though it turned................

watch this space..............

I think you misunderstood what you have been told.

Go to a car and take one of the valve caps off.

Look down the threaded "tube" that you have now exposed. That is the "tube the air to inflate the tyre goes down.

You will see the tube is blocked up by a small bar across the tube with a sort of pin head in the centre. This bar is the top of the valve proper.

At one time one of the car wheels had a special valve cap with an small diameter extension on it with a cut through the middle. This fitted down the air tube and the cut-out fitted either side of the valve thereby allowing you to unscrew the valve core.

This is the valve people have advised you replace - no spanners involved. I think you tried to take the whole valve assembly out tube and all so may have split the bladder that is inside the pressure vessel.

 

However If you got air through the valve but the air pressure inside the accumulator did not rise then it suggests the bladder has punctured.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think you misunderstood what you have been told.

Go to a car and take one of the valve caps off.

Look down the threaded "tube" that you have now exposed. That is the "tube the air to inflate the tyre goes down.

You will see the tube is blocked up by a small bar across the tube with a sort of pin head in the centre. This bar is the top of the valve proper.

At one time one of the car wheels had a special valve cap with an small diameter extension on it with a cut through the middle. This fitted down the air tube and the cut-out fitted either side of the valve thereby allowing you to unscrew the valve core.

This is the valve people have advised you replace - no spanners involved. I think you tried to take the whole valve assembly out tube and all so may have split the bladder that is inside the pressure vessel.

 

However If you got air through the valve but the air pressure inside the accumulator did not rise then it suggests the bladder has punctured.

 

 

Thanks Tony - you are right I have misunderstood, on reflection back to my "playing with cars" days I do know what you mean - either way the valve "inner" is not accessible without my removing the tank so I will continue with the plan to replace one with new and then play - worst case is that both will be faulty and I need to buy another , best is that I end up with a spare.

Thanks again for clarifying my senility:)!

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On 12/03/2018 at 10:24, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

He will say "additional brackets impossible to fit, therefore still AR", I predict...

:giggles:

Getting back into this OT part of the thread...

BG moved the appt from Friday to today. Gas guy had been to us before and knew the installation. Several points were made...

  • Inspector who issued the AR was from PH Jones and wanted to demonstrate how ‘extra thorough’ he is. 
  • Constant new guidelines are issued by Gas Safe. Supports for flues used to be max distance 1.5m apart, now it’s 1.2m or any change of direction. 
  • Guidance from manufacturer always says a support for every flue section “but they’re not fitting it!”
  • Our installation was supported at one end by the boiler and the ceiling fire stop and at the other end by being cemented through the brick, so only required a single support ‘In This Engineer’s Opinion’. 

So he fitted one :)

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Result.

Worrying that there is so much scope for different "engineers" to interpreted the regs though.

In the elecrical industry there are guides issued along  the regs, which go some way to ensuring a consistent interpretation. (Not always though,  I once saw a building where even the aluminium window frames were equipottentially bonded!)

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

Result.

Worrying that there is so much scope for different "engineers" to interpreted the regs though.

In the elecrical industry there are guides issued along  the regs, which go some way to ensuring a consistent interpretation. (Not always though,  I once saw a building where even the aluminium window frames were equipottentially bonded!)

At a theatre I worked in as Chief Electrician in the mid-eighties they employed a new front of house electrician. (He’s the guy responsible for all of the electrics in front of the curtains.) His attitude was that ‘if it was made of metal it needed to be bonded’ and little clamps with green and yellow cable sprouted everywhere - handrails down the aisles, the metal frames of all the seats... we made a game of finding new ones weekly. 

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Having suffered an open circuit somewhere between our house and the substation I often wonder what would happen if (as happened another time) a neighbouring property got a neutral to earth fault. This was with fuses. I suspect it could make all those bonded metal parts lethal.

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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Having suffered an open circuit somewhere between our house and the substation I often wonder what would happen if (as happened another time) a neighbouring property got a neutral to earth fault. This was with fuses. I suspect it could make all those bonded metal parts lethal.

I agree. 

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Update - just managed to change the Schrader valves today and sadly it made no difference so the diaphragms must be perished, they are not accessible so 2 new units now ordered - needless to say they are the same but slightly different so the pump arrangements will need to be slightly changed - for some reason the ones in the boat are US spec items which I can repeat (from the US) but I will make the change to the UK spec and be futureproofed

BFN

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32 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Update - just managed to change the Schrader valves today and sadly it made no difference so the diaphragms must be perished, they are not accessible so 2 new units now ordered - needless to say they are the same but slightly different so the pump arrangements will need to be slightly changed - for some reason the ones in the boat are US spec items which I can repeat (from the US) but I will make the change to the UK spec and be futureproofed

BFN

I was about to order 2 direct replacements and came across this - "Jabsco Par Max 2.9 pump" - whilst my shurflo pumps are working fine for now they clearly have the same "history" as the accumulators ie 10+ years old with NO use - I am wondering whether simply to change the whole set up and fit 2 of the above non accumulator pumps - what do people think??? has anyone got the Jabsco mentioned above.

There is very little difference in cost between 2 accumulators and 2 pumps.

Thoughts................................

 

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