Internal refurb

[Peteonthelee]

I am about to buy a old semi trad. I want to replace the flooring throughout and put in a new kitchen. I will be based in Sawbridgeworth (border of Essex and Herts). Any recommendations of workers that can do this? I would love to do it myself but time wise is a struggle.

Cheers

Pete

Edited March 5, 2018 by Peteonthelee
mis spelling

[Tony Brooks]

Well as the majority of narrowboats have their bulkheads and fixed furniture built on top of the floor this may well turn out to be a far larger job than you may think. It could be take everything out and totally refit.

[mrsmelly]

As Tony says I would be wary of the work and more importantly COST involved with your project. The boat needs to be very cheap to make it worthwhile as there will undoubtedly be more to it than meets the eye.

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

Well as the majority of narrowboats have their bulkheads and fixed furniture built on top of the floor this may well turn out to be a far larger job than you may think. It could be take everything out and totally refit.

I agree! Mine still isn't fully back together yet.

It does depend on whether the OP is wanting to replace the actual floor, or just the decorative flooring above it.  If it is just laminate floor on top of plywood and the ply is in fair condition it might be an easy job.

If it's the actual plywood floor, then as Tony says, it could well be a full strip out of everything.

[Peteonthelee]

Thank you all for such quick replies. Much appreciated. I am thinking I will just replace the existing floor above the base ply? Which I think should be ok. I was toying with taking it all out to create more headspace as I am 6ft 4 but I think this sounds like too big a job. Could you foresee any issue with removing the existing laminate top floor? There are actually 2 layers of decorative flooring so this should give me an extra inch by taking them out and replacing with one.

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Peteonthelee said:

Thank you all for such quick replies. Much appreciated. I am thinking I will just replace the existing floor above the base ply? Which I think should be ok. I was toying with taking it all out to create more headspace as I am 6ft 4 but I think this sounds like too big a job. Could you foresee any issue with removing the existing laminate top floor? There are actually 2 layers of decorative flooring so this should give me an extra inch by taking them out and replacing with one.

This is what taking the floor up looks like, in this case to derust the baseplate.  Stove out, all bulkheads out, galley out, all fixed furniture out.  That is what Tony was warning you would be a big job.

Just peeling up an existing flooring finish above the plywood is a doddle, and even if time limited can be a DIY job.

Any flooring installer will be able to fit new - there is no difference between fitting flooring in a boat or a narrow hallway in a house. 

Depending on the layout of your boat, you might want to consider stripping out the galley and flooring all the way through before redoing the galley.  It makes the job much easier.

[koukouvagia]

I'd want to assure myself that the baseplate is in good condition before I put a layer of laminate on top of the existing floor.  The temptation is that you'll admire the new flooring and forget about what's below.  

At the very least, I'd make sure I had some fair sized inspection panels in the new flooring.

Mr Biscuits's picture shows what may well be lurking below your floor.

Here's a similar picture when we took the floor up on one of our boats.

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Here's a similar picture when we took the floor up on one of our boats.

 

No you don't want to do that - it's taking the floor up that lets the air get at the steel, and cause the rust.

Keep the bottom well covered, and you'll not have a problem!

[Tony Brooks]

This is not a pop at the OP but its a perfect illustration of where a poorly worded question leads to confusion, complication, and gets incorrect eresponses to the question the OP thinks they asked. Still its answered now.

[Peteonthelee]

Thank you all for your replies. This has helped a lot. My question has been answered re both potential options of taking the whole floor up or just the laminate top - many thanks.

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, Peteonthelee said:

Thank you all for your replies. This has helped a lot. My question has been answered re both potential options of taking the whole floor up or just the laminate top - many thanks.

Just to be clear - if you lift the laminate and the plywood looks rotten, you might have to go for the bigger job.

If you pay a flooring fitter to strip out the old and lay new, they probably will without mentioning any soft or damp spots.

If you strip out the flooring yourself, you get to decide if the sub floor is good or bad.  I suppose you could pay someone to take out the old floor then check it yourself, but only you can decide what to do.

I would say strip out the old flooring yourself, and if you see anything you are not sure about, post some pictures on here.

Edited March 5, 2018 by TheBiscuits

[Sea Dog]

18 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Just peeling up an existing flooring finish above the plywood is a doddle, and even if time limited can be a DIY job.

This might well be true. Unless you find, as I have previously, that someone has glued the second layer to the original floor, in which case the top surface of the base comes with it leaving an awful mess. Mine was in a house, but the equivalent boaty solution was to remove and replace the original plywood base which would mean, as pointed out earlier, an internal refit. The point being, you won't know the size of the job til you start, by which time you'll be committed.  You really need to know what's facing you before you buy the boat.

If you don't have time to do the work yourself, your doing a close equivalent to buying an old car and paying someone else to restore it. That could work out very expensive.  Better to buy a boat which is already in the condition you need (and perhaps already has the headroom you need) or only needs work you can mostly manage yourself. 

[Chas78]

30 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

This might well be true. Unless you find, as I have previously, that someone has glued the second layer to the original floor, in which case the top surface of the base comes with it leaving an awful mess. Mine was in a house, but the equivalent boaty solution was to remove and replace the original plywood base which would mean, as pointed out earlier, an internal refit. The point being, you won't know the size of the job til you start, by which time you'll be committed.  You really need to know what's facing you before you buy the boat.

If you don't have time to do the work yourself, your doing a close equivalent to buying an old car and paying someone else to restore it. That could work out very expensive.  Better to buy a boat which is already in the condition you need (and perhaps already has the headroom you need) or only needs work you can mostly manage yourself. 

 

I agree with whats been said i bought my boat last September and decided to do a re-fit myself i am only at this stage still after taking the complete floor up de-rusting and re-painting and that was nowt to do with re-fitting anything as Tony said the bulkheads are major to remove anless you remove the roof panelling i decided to nibble mine out bit by bit with a drill good luck with your re-fitting 

[Tony Brooks]

Now we have those vibrating  multi-tools and mini circular saws it may not be too hard to cut the majority of a rotton old floor out leaving the bulkheads and furniture in place. Much as Chas has done. Not difficult but definitely time consuming.

I would have left a larger lip on the original floor to allow a support piece-s to be glued and screwed around the holes. Then either fully liftable floor sections can be put down or sections with just a few fixings.

[Chas78]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Now we have those vibrating  multi-tools and mini circular saws it may not be too hard to cut the majority of a rotton old floor out leaving the bulkheads and furniture in place. Much as Chas has done. Not difficult but definitely time consuming.

I would have left a larger lip on the original floor to allow a support piece-s to be glued and screwed around the holes. Then either fully liftable floor sections can be put down or sections with just a few fixings.

Hi Tony,

On the recommendation from someone i actually bought one of those multitool jobbies from Lidl AFTER removing the bulkhead etc doh  i must admit i would not be without it now i shall use it to make access panels beneath the seats etc and use metal brackets to hold panels in place or as you say screw wood support frames in place from the top   

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

Hi Tony,

On the recommendation from someone i actually bought one of those multitool jobbies from Lidl AFTER removing the bulkhead etc doh  i must admit i would not be without it now i shall use it to make access panels beneath the seats etc and use metal brackets to hold panels in place or as you say screw wood support frames in place from the top   

The reason I would put an all round  lip under the floor is to try to minimise the amount of dirt that s ems to drop through the cracks. On the hire cruisers it could be fairly significant over a few years.

[Peteonthelee]

Thanks again all. Much for me to chew over. I will take up the floor myself and just cross my fingers that the base ply is solid looking and no damp parts!!

[Neil Smith]

Where are your moorings in sawbridgeworth, we are by the road bridge near the maltings and station, Biz is on the stort in Stortford and might know someone to do your work.

Neil.

[Peteonthelee]

Hello Neil 

I am in that vicinity all being well. How can I contact you?

 

Peter

[Peteonthelee]

Ok. I did end up buying the boat…. and am now a little worried.

On first inspection of the flooring there is a big very damp patch at the bow entrance door. I have only taken part of it up as I wasn't sure whether to continue to pull it up or not. It appears that the damp is coming from below the flooring as the undersurface was very wet and rotten. So the question I have is what do you think may have caused such a degree of damp and effectively rotting of the ply flooring boards? Any ideas of things to check would be gratefully received.

I am going to pull up the rest of the affected board later today and I am crossing my fingers I do not come across anything too sinister.

 

 

[Jamboat]

Is your water tank under/in the bow ? Might be a leaking joint 

[TheBiscuits]

15 minutes ago, Peteonthelee said:

Ok. I did end up buying the boat…. and am now a little worried.

On first inspection of the flooring there is a big very damp patch at the bow entrance door. I have only taken part of it up as I wasn't sure whether to continue to pull it up or not. It appears that the damp is coming from below the flooring as the undersurface was very wet and rotten. So the question I have is what do you think may have caused such a degree of damp and effectively rotting of the ply flooring boards? Any ideas of things to check would be gratefully received.

I am going to pull up the rest of the affected board later today and I am crossing my fingers I do not come across anything too sinister.

Post some photos of the wet bit so we can get a better idea of the extent.  If it is vaguely semicircular it might be that the door leaks.

Do you have an inspection hole at the back of the cabin?  First check that the entire cabin bilge is not full of water.

[Neil Smith]

Sorry I missed your post on the 7th march, you can pm me and meet up in sawbo sometime.

Neil

[Peteonthelee]

So the investigation into the damp patch showed the patch was the whole floor - see pics. There is still a bit more to take up but as far as I can see the hull is dry. Could this all be down to condensation?

So my decision was made for me - now my question is are there any problems associated with putting e.g reclaimed scaffold boards directly down onto the metal stiffeners maybe with some insulation under the boards as there was none done originally.

I have included a picture of the space between the ballast and the skirting. I think this can be filled with some other skirting? If I go down directly on the stiffener this will create a gap.

From the picture with all the boards up you can see the bulkhead. I may just take the new floor up to the bulkhead but not under it - I will get a chippy in to see what's possible I guess.

Beyond the bulkhead new ply has been lain down - I think I will have to take all this up too but that may depend on what the chippy advises.

The first picture shows the space under the bow area - this is marginally damp but actually not too bad - I think I may be able to leave this?

Any thoughts will be again gratefully received and sorry if that is too many questions.

Pete

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Peteonthelee said:

So the investigation into the damp patch showed the patch was the whole floor - see pics. There is still a bit more to take up but as far as I can see the hull is dry. Could this all be down to condensation?

So my decision was made for me - now my question is are there any problems associated with putting e.g reclaimed scaffold boards directly down onto the metal stiffeners maybe with some insulation under the boards as there was none done originally.

I have included a picture of the space between the ballast and the skirting. I think this can be filled with some other skirting? If I go down directly on the stiffener this will create a gap.

From the picture with all the boards up you can see the bulkhead. I may just take the new floor up to the bulkhead but not under it - I will get a chippy in to see what's possible I guess.

Beyond the bulkhead new ply has been lain down - I think I will have to take all this up too but that may depend on what the chippy advises.

The first picture shows the space under the bow area - this is marginally damp but actually not too bad - I think I may be able to leave this?

Any thoughts will be again gratefully received and sorry if that is too many questions.

Pete

Good set of pictures - a textbook example of why not to use chipboard flooring in a boat.  Chipboard is wooden weetabix, and when it gets damp it goes soft and horrible. as you have just found out.

I would guess that your bow doors are leaking, either under the frame or at the sill.  The good news is that they are not leaking much - it does not take much water to do that to chipboard, and your bilge is not full of water.

I would strongly encourage you to replace the floor with decent 19mm plywood.  You don't need to go for marine grade (very expensive) but you do need a decent exterior grade WBP ply.  On my 1970s boat the floor was wet and stained, but the original plywood was all reuseable once it had dried out.

I don't see any advantage to fitting out a boat with a badly done cabin floor - it is a big job to refit, and if you get leaks again it will need doing again.  If budget is tight, put a decent floor in and just chuck a futon on top of the plywood for the time being.

I would advise against trying to lay a cabin floor made from reclaimed timber.  If you want the look, you can always add a thin timber floor on top of the straight level plywood.

While you are this far into removing the flooring, consider lifting the ballast flagstones a few at a time, scraping the rust out and painting the baseplate.  If you do insulate under the floor (most people do not) make sure you leave room for airflow around the flags.  I replaced my ballast on top of thin PVC extrusions to allow air circulation under the flags as well as above them.

Don't worry about too many questions, this will be a useful thread for many people who have similar problems. We will tell you if you are being a pest