New batteries

[Rob99fla]

Just fitted 4x US2200 6v batteries and hopefully will have a better life than the last Halfords leisure batteries. Reading the spec, it takes time for these type of batteries to achieve maximum capacity. In the real world of soon to be out on the cut for 8 months, charging with alternator and 400w of solar, is this a matter of weeks or months? (in others experience)

 

[Naughty Cal]

How long is a piece of string?

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

How long is a piece of string?

 Twice as long as half its length.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Rob99fla said:

Just fitted 4x US2200 6v batteries and hopefully will have a better life than the last Halfords leisure batteries. Reading the spec, it takes time for these type of batteries to achieve maximum capacity. In the real world of soon to be out on the cut for 8 months, charging with alternator and 400w of solar, is this a matter of weeks or months? (in others experience)

 

All I can say is that in the real world out on the cut I generaly get 2 years or a bit longer from my bank of 4 cheap leisure batteries as full time liveaboard. Us batteries have good press but what was the cost and how long will they last is of course the million dollar question. Please keep us updated 

[Rob99fla]

23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

All I can say is that in the real world out on the cut I generaly get 2 years or a bit longer from my bank of 4 cheap leisure batteries as full time liveaboard. Us batteries have good press but what was the cost and how long will they last is of course the million dollar question. Please keep us updated 

I had three sets of Halfords batteries in nearly 18 months. They started out OK but quickly lost capacity despite being very careful charging. I eventually (very luckily, I think) got a full refund of £380. The 4 x US2200 batteries cost £530 delivered. I'm hoping for 5 years. Added another 100w solar to help. Will update when I know more. Oh, we are full time live aboard but use hook up for 4 months in the winter. We have a 240v fridge and inverter

Edited March 4, 2018 by Rob99fla

[Sea Dog]

11 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

I had three sets of Halfords batteries in nearly 18 months. They started out OK but quickly lost capacity despite being very careful charging.

I suspect what you thought was very careful charging actually wasn't -  unless you were discharging them quite heavily between charges.  What we're you using to monitor your state of charge? How far did you discharge before recharging? How often were you recharging? Did you always aim to achieve a full recharge? What tail current were you achieving before stopping charging? 

I ask those questions because you can wreck a set of US2200 almost as quickly if your charging regime is at fault. 

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

I had three sets of Halfords batteries in nearly 18 months.

In which case I'd suggest that you probably will get little better results from your expensive US batteries.

Do you intend to change your battery management practices ?

[Naughty Cal]

Why bother changing the habit of a lifetime?

Just complain to the manufacturer in four months time when the batteries are knackered again.

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Rob99fla said:

Reading the spec, it takes time for these type of batteries to achieve maximum capacity

50-100 cycles as I answered in your other thread asking the same question. 

[Tony Brooks]

My answer to the original question would have been probably never because you would have destroyed them first by poor charging.

Sea Dog's questions need answering before any other conclusion can be drawn in your articular case (plus many others).

[Rob99fla]

25 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I suspect what you thought was very careful charging actually wasn't -  unless you were discharging them quite heavily between charges.  What we're you using to monitor your state of charge? How far did you discharge before recharging? How often were you recharging? Did you always aim to achieve a full recharge? What tail current were you achieving before stopping charging? 

I ask those questions because you can wreck a set of US2200 almost as quickly if your charging regime is at fault. 

I have spent the last year studying batteries and charging, hence the upgrade to semi-traction 6v batteries. I have a Victron BMV to monitor the batteries. I ignore the percentage charge and use the tail current, set to 2% in the BMV for 100%, every day. The discharge between charges is was about 90-100 amps max. I never let the batteries go below 12.1v and charged every day. With the 300w solar (now 400w), the batteries achieved 100% charge with a tail current of about 1-2 amps. When not moving, I generally ran the engine for about 2-3 hours unless it was a good sunny day and the solar did a good job. I also have a Stering Pro regulator B on a 110amp alternator. I sometimes did a equaliser charge on the batteries. I used to check the cells using a hydrometer and gradually saw the SG drop on the cells. Personally, I don't the think the Halfords 115ahr leisure batteries are robust enough for a live aboard using around 90-100a per day

[rusty69]

I assume you achieve that tail current at the correct charging voltage!

[Rob99fla]

14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Why bother changing the habit of a lifetime?

Just complain to the manufacturer in four months time when the batteries are knackered again.

Why do you assume I don't know how to charge batteries. See my reply to the previous post. There are loads of post on this forum about basic leisure batteries not being robust enough for the job and why people have had good results from Trojans and similar batteries. I know many people have no idea about battery charging but I fully understand a strict charging regime, at least I have learnt that in the last year

[Tony Brooks]

If the Sp. Gr. was dropping then your charging regime must be suspect. A dropping Sp. Gr. across a battery indicates sulphation as long as the tail current at 14.4ish volts was low enough. Otherwise it indicates discharged batteries.

If it were failing batteries I would expect different Sp. Gr. readings across a battery or loss of cycic life.

It sounds as if you should be doing OK but the loss of Sp. Gr. suggests not. Could any solar voltage be confusing the situation?

Edited March 4, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Rob99fla]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I assume you achieve that tail current at the correct charging voltage!

Of course. Alternator charging at around 14.7v. Charger, when connected to shore or generator, 14.7 and the charger has a thermistor connected to the battery terminal to increase voltage when very cold weather

[rusty69]

11 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

Why do you assume I don't know how to charge batteries. See my reply to the previous post. There are loads of post on this forum about basic leisure batteries not being robust enough for the job and why people have had good results from Trojans and similar batteries. I know many people have no idea about battery charging but I fully understand a strict charging regime, at least I have learnt that in the last year

Ok.I assumed becaiuse you got poor life out of your previous 3 sets of batteries. I manage a couple of years out of our cheapies. Apologies, I will say no more.

Edited March 4, 2018 by rusty69

[Rob99fla]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

If the Sp. Gr. was dropping then your charging regime must be suspect. A dropping Sp. Gr. across a battery indicates sulphation as long as the tail current at 14.4ish volts was low enough. Otherwise it indicates discharged batteries.

If it were failing batteries I would expect different Sp. Gr. Readings across a battery.

Yes, there were different readings across cells and batteries. As I have mentioned, I have never let the batteries go below 12.1v rested, charge very day to a tail current of 1-2 amps

[Nightwatch]

I'm with Tim on this. We had to buy four new four new batteries in October last year. Three hundred quidders. The last ones lasted just over four years. Three and a half years live aboarding.

PS. I have an iPad which is about five or six years old. Any wiz kids know if I can sort of reboot it as occasionally it freezes and sometimes it won't go to numerals keyboard hence the numbers written in words?

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I will say no more,

Ooh.  We have it in writing

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Ooh.  We have it in writing

 

Yeah,but I signed noffing

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Rob99fla said:

Yes, there were different readings across cells and batteries. As I have mentioned, I have never let the batteries go below 12.1v rested, charge very day to a tail current of 1-2 amps

I would say 12.1V is too low, especially if you have solar involved or it is not adequately rested. As long as they are open cells a good equalisation charge may help sort out the Sp. Gr.s. If it does not it sounds like you are out of cyclic life and that tends to indicate regular discharging deeper than the optimum. (may not be for the new set but for goodness sake check the rested voltage to state of charge figures.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Rob99fla]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Ok.I assumed becaiuse you got poor life out of your previous 3 sets of batteries. I manage a couple of years out of our cheapies. Appologies, I will say no more,

I can understand why you think that. Some people have no idea about batteries but I have read and learnt loads and have a 12v background from my working days. I have read other peoples problem with Halfords (read Yuasa) 115ahr leisure batteries so wasted pleased when Halfords gave me the money back (£380) so was able to upgrade to the US2200 for £150. I'm hoping its a good upgrade

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would say 12.1V is too low, especially if you have solar involved or it is not adequately rested. As long as they are open cells a good equalisation charge may help sort out the Sp. Gr.s. If it does not it sounds like you are out of cyclic life and that tends to indicate regular discharging deeper than the optimum. (may not be for the new set but for goodness sake check the rested voltage to state of charge figures.

The Halfords batteries are now gone back to Halfords. The new US2200 batteries are now fitted and working fine. I was really just asking how long can I expect them to reach full capacity (cycles).

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would say 12.1V is too low, especially if you have solar involved or it is not adequately rested. As long as they are open cells a good equalisation charge may help sort out the Sp. Gr.s. If it does not it sounds like you are out of cyclic life and that tends to indicate regular discharging deeper than the optimum. (may not be for the new set but for goodness sake check the rested voltage to state of charge figures.

Probably lower than 12.1v if the reading was taken from a remote gauge and not direct at the batteries.

[Tony Brooks]

If you are never charging them properly then never, that is what some of us are trying to say. You claim you are but your data suggests not unless you had a faulty set of batteries. You seem to think that you did and you may well be correct but I await your progress reports with great interest.

[Rob99fla]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

If you are never charging them properly then never, that is what some of us are trying to say. You claim you are but your data suggests not unless you had a faulty set of batteries. You seem to think that you did and you may well be correct but I await your progress reports with great interest.

I am open to any good suggestions but I really do not know what else I can do. Charge to 1-2 amps tail current every day. Charge at least 14.7 volts.do not let batteries go below 12.2v (now). Perhaps 9-100 amps per day is too higher a discharge for basic leisure batteries