The future of coal

[bizzard]

There were many bi-products produced in the retorts at town gas works. Gas of course from the top of the retort, coming down were stuff like amonia, coke, tar, benzol, and lastly, breeze, clinker used for land drainage. All sold off. Even the waste slag heaps if left for many years produced some Cobalt.  Quite lucrative were the old gasworks. All produced from lumps of coal.

[Athy]

22 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

Dont you remember that was what Orgreave was a coking plant there was one at Brookhouse as well in Beighton

Of those names, I know only Beighton - if it's the Sheffield suburb of that name. Coke is apparently still used in some industries such as glassmaking and detergents (why?) but most is now imported as there is only one coking plant left in Britain, somewhere near Barnsley, and that one is due to close (if it hasn't already).

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

Of those names, I know only Beighton - if it's the Sheffield suburb of that name. Coke is apparently still used in some industries such as glassmaking and detergents (why?) but most is now imported as there is only one coking plant left in Britain, somewhere near Barnsley, and that one is due to close (if it hasn't already).

You have never heard of Orgreave???? really??

Here's a clue.

Edited March 4, 2018 by MJG
Correct spelling

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, MJG said:

You have never heard of Orgeave???? really??

I know I thought the same...........

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, springy said:

AIUI Coke is/was one of the products of "the coal gassification" process i.e. the production of town gas, all of the volatilles have been driven off leaving a very light porous solid with a high carbon content and few impurities - as such it does burn clean but usually needs forced air to maintain the burn. It does burn hot and historically most would have been used in iron & steel making as it would not add impurities to the iron, important in the production of cast iron from a Blast Furnace and also when working iron in a forge.

The coming of North Sea Gas and Electric Furnaces means that very little is now produced or used.

 

springy    

My parents had what they called "the Boiler" in the corner of the kitchen which heated the domestic hot water. it was actually a cast iron stove with a back boiler which burned coke, and it cetainly did not use forced air to function.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

My parents had what they called "the Boiler" in the corner of the kitchen which heated the domestic hot water. it was actually a cast iron stove with a back boiler which burned coke, and it cetainly did not use forced air to function.

 

I'm fairly sure my parents used to burn coke not coal on something called a Parkray fire - a bit like a predecessor to the stoves of today but with slatted glass in the door rather than a single piece and no forced induction either.

One of these.

[Athy]

19 minutes ago, MJG said:

You have never heard of Orgreave???? really??

Here's a clue.

Oh, I have seen that photo before - the chap on the right was a miner who ws apparently quite a character and actually got on well with the coppers. I think he passed away fairly recently.

I wouldn't have remembered the name "Orgreave" though, no.

[TheBiscuits]

21 minutes ago, MJG said:

You have never heard of Orgreave???? really??

That's a strike against Athy then!

[bizzard]

Us and neighbours had Parkray stoves fitted for central heating. Our neighbour next door was a stoker at the huge east London Beckton gas works, He had an old Standard Vanguard van in which he'd use to transport coke in to get it home. One of the little rear door windows was knocked out and he would shovel the coke into it through that. He supplied 2 or 3 of us neighbours with it, can't remember if he charged us though. The coke may have been a company perk or he might have stolen it, I don't know. Anyway it burned superbly and really hot on our Parkrays, really hot water. The massive slag heap still remains close by the A13 road near East Ham. Some Cobolt was creamed off and sold to Germany. The heap is now transformed into a dry Ski slope, on the non facing side of the road though and can't be seen. There used to be a narrow gauge railway winding around it to the top which transported the slag up to dump it.  Forges need forced air to bring coke up to virtually white heat to heat metal.

[bizzard]

And of course the only other gas works in Parliament Square is still producing plenty of gas.

[Peter X]

Some boaters do still burn coal, it's cheaper but does create a fug. I know this because I go out on the NBT boats selling it, but it's a small fraction of sales, mostly we sell various types of smokeless. Smokeless had better have a future or the NBT will have to adapt and find something else to carry.

I'm not our expert on the pros and cons of different types (see the website for contacts), I just carry and throw bags about, great fun. Something I most certainly can't do while recovering from my recent chest operation, but I hope to be back out there in the summer doing it. The consultant said three months after the op before I do any heavy lifting, which would mean late May, and I'm seeing him tomorrow so I'll find out if I'm on track for that.

My parents used an open fire burning coke which certainly chucked out plenty of heat when it got going; we'd open the door then to let the heat out into the hall and warm the rest of the house. Each summer the delivery of about 25-30cwt was a bit of an event, with the man carrying a 1cwt bag on his shoulder through the house from a horse-drawn cart and pouring it into our old wooden bunker. In fact my mother went on using the open fire right up to about 2012, maybe in the later years the fuel wasn't coke.

A friend of mine was a young PC at the time of the miner's strike, often sent up north for it, and joked that he was sad when it ended because he'd made enough on overtime to pay for his house extension.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Peter X said:

Some boaters do still burn coal, it's cheaper but does create a fug.

 

Around here petrol stations, B&Q, Wickes etc all seem to do a good trade in solid fuel. Roughly equal quantities of branded smokeless and raw house coal seem to be on the racks so quite a few peeps must be happily burning the stuff!

[bizzard]

House coal, like steam coal needs to be burn't quite fiercely to burn reasonably clean and fed little and often. Lighting up, just ticking over and turned right down at night produces all the smoke and goo.

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Around here petrol stations, B&Q, Wickes etc all seem to do a good trade in solid fuel. Roughly equal quantities of branded smokeless and raw house coal seem to be on the racks so quite a few peeps must be happily burning the stuff!

And around here.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, bizzard said:

House coal, like steam coal needs to be burn't quite fiercely to burn reasonably clean and fed little and often. Lighting up, just ticking over and turned right down at night produces all the smoke and goo.

And around here.

Last time I saw somebody I know buying coal at B&M I did try to nicely point out that as we live in a smoke control area she would be better buying the smokeless fuel that was piled up next to it.

She just shrugged her shoulders and said yebutt that's a pound dearer. 

I wonder how many people actually adhere to the requirements? perhaps outlets that are located within smoke control areas should only be allowed to stock smokeless?

Edited March 4, 2018 by MJG

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I always keep some house coal on board. I use it to get a quick fire going when I’ve no wood. It catches fast and gives off good heat. The rest of the day I’ll use the smokeless. And bank it up for the night with smokeless.

 

 

[Gareth E]

I burn petcoke myself. Not in large quantities because of the warnings of stove damage but it's good for starting a fire, getting it nice and hot before adding normal smokeless. Petcoke burns very cleanly, is as easy to light as any smokeless fuel and most certainly doesn't need forced air for it to burn. Actually you can even close down the air a little without it going out, you can't do this with anthracite.

[MoominPapa]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

This marina I am STILL in because of the weather

I thought you were going on a cruise? We've escaped Crick marina, battered our way to Watford locks and got to the bottom before they close tomorrow. What's keeping you?

MP.

 

[mrsmelly]

26 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

I thought you were going on a cruise? We've escaped Crick marina, battered our way to Watford locks and got to the bottom before they close tomorrow. What's keeping you?

MP.

 

Berlimey  I bow to your superior boaterietiness. swmbo is now doing washing etc such as curtains whilst still on whimpy umbilicle then we hope to escape on Tuesday 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

35 minutes ago, Gareth E said:

I burn petcoke myself. Not in large quantities because of the warnings of stove damage but it's good for starting a fire, getting it nice and hot before adding normal smokeless. Petcoke burns very cleanly, is as easy to light as any smokeless fuel and most certainly doesn't need forced air for it to burn. Actually you can even close down the air a little without it going out, you can't do this with anthracite.

Being on the move most of the time, I have to buy what’s available from place to place.

I’ve never (knowingly) come across petcoke. 

Is that something you’d have to order from a coal merchant? 

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, MJG said:

Last time I saw somebody I know buying coal at B&M I did try to nicely point out that as we live in a smoke control area she would be better buying the smokeless fuel that was piled up next to it.

She just shrugged her shoulders and said yebutt that's a pound dearer. 

I wonder how many people actually adhere to the requirements? perhaps outlets that are located within smoke control areas should only be allowed to stock smokeless?

Or stick £2 on a bag of housecoal and not on the smokeless.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

21 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Or stick £2 on a bag of housecoal and not on the smokeless.

Or give the woman a quid? 

I mean, if anyone’s going to tell someone how to spend their money then they should put their hand in their pocket too. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Goliath
D

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Berlimey  I bow to your superior boaterietiness. swmbo is now doing washing etc such as curtains whilst still on whimpy umbilicle then we hope to escape on Tuesday 

Have to confess that we are now on the bottom lock landing. Ice at this end being too thick to easily move another boat-length onto the 48hrs. Will stay here 'till the CRT workboats make it through from Norton junction with the new lockgates. That will be tomorrow, allegedly.

Have fun on Tuesday.

MP.

 

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

Oh, I have seen that photo before - the chap on the right was a miner who ws apparently quite a character and actually got on well with the coppers. I think he passed away fairly recently.

I wouldn't have remembered the name "Orgreave" though, no.

Just like to mention with regard this foto that in the real world like what I live in that many in fact most miners got on well with " coppers " we all lived and socialised in the same pubs and most of my best mates were miners. Miners and police are after all just working class bods. The main difference was the miners got paid considerably more than the police.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Gareth E said:

I burn petcoke myself. Not in large quantities because of the warnings of stove damage but it's good for starting a fire, getting it nice and hot before adding normal smokeless. Petcoke burns very cleanly, is as easy to light as any smokeless fuel and most certainly doesn't need forced air for it to burn. Actually you can even close down the air a little without it going out, you can't do this with anthracite.

My Rayburn Royal was designed with Anthracite in mind I can close it down and it will stay in for 36 hours, but most stoves dont seem to like it which leaves all the more for meeeeeeeeee

[Detling]

Coal produces only two of the nasties that are currently in the media, CO2 and Particulates, neither of which are the pollution the government is being taken to court for, that is for the third nasty NOx, this comes from oil and GAS burning. According to a report done for the mayor of London most NOx comes from Central heating(25%) then commercial vehicles (10%) (Buses, lorries and vans) then Aircraft(7%) (Heathrow and City airports) then personal cars both petrol (6%) and diesel (3.5%)(there are more petrol cars than diesel). No one wants to mention these sources, since a huge percentage of our electricity comes from gas fired power stations, almost all central heating comes via a gas boiler, and we want food and goods in the shops as well as our foreign holidays, so what can we cut out? I know lets go after the canal boats which produce less than 0.01% of the problem.