Carbon Monoxide alarms for boats

[rjasmith]

18 hours ago, AndrewIC said:

I guess you'd have to read the standard itself to see how the testing regimes differ, but I'm not spending £122 to find out!

No need to spend any money to read a BSI or ISO etc standard you know!

Just go to Manchester City Libraries (MCL) Online Reference library (ideally you should become a member as I have and (I think) uniquely MCL offers library membership to ANY UK resident). From there they provide a link to British Stds Online (BSOL) (MCL pays for the BSOL access licence! Thank you MCL!). Enter the Std no of your choice in the BSOL search box and when the titles come up you'll see a little icon on the far right of it (Quick View). Click this and a read only .pdf will come up of the Std's full text.

I've just had a look at BS EN 50291-2 and the paragraphs relating to Recreational Craft are in deed interesting and definitely relate to salty boats ie the alarm must stand up to all sorts of vibration, heel angles, crashing about in waves, salt water splashing about, even non interference with marine VHF etc etc.

Have a read for yourself!

Richard

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, rjasmith said:

No need to spend any money to read a BSI or ISO etc standard you know!

Just go to Manchester City Libraries (MCL) Online Reference library (ideally you should become a member as I have and (I think) uniquely MCL offers library membership to ANY UK resident). From there they provide a link to British Stds Online (BSOL) (MCL pays for the BSOL access licence! Thank you MCL!). Enter the Std no of your choice in the BSOL search box and when the titles come up you'll see a little icon on the far right of it (Quick View). Click this and a read only .pdf will come up of the Std's full text.

I've just had a look at BS EN 50291-2 and the paragraphs relating to Recreational Craft are in deed interesting and definitely relate to salty boats ie the alarm must stand up to all sorts of vibration, heel angles, crashing about in waves, salt water splashing about, even non interference with marine VHF etc etc.

Have a read for yourself!

Richard

 

 

In today's risk averse society it becomes much easier (and safer) for manufacturers to say 'non-boat approved' and lose the very small Inland waterways market - the alternative of getting BSI to approve a 'sub-division' allowing a "non-tidal waters" waters approval is unlikely (again the market is far too small)

Following the thoughts thru'

Wonder what would any insurance companies view be if a claim was made (when CO poisoning a visitor) and the alarm was non-boat approved ?

[Nightwatch]

19 hours ago, Loddon said:

These are the ones we have

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-angel-co-9d-carbon-monoxide-alarm/

And despite what it says they are technically not certified for boats.

 

 

Ditto. 

[Momac]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Wonder what would any insurance companies view be if a claim was made (when CO poisoning a visitor) and the alarm was non-boat approved ?

A CO alarm is not mandatory on a privately owned boat therefore I do no see how insurers could reject a claim solely on the basis that a CO alarm  fitted was  not technically specified for boat use . In any case the alarm suitable for a caravan  would probably be perfectly okay in a narrowboat and any other inland waterways boat as they are not really any different to a caravan or a motorhome.  

The CO alarm I have can be tested to see it is working okay - I think they are all equipped with a test button. So any alarm may be checked to see it has not become defective by being exposed to the environment. 

I don't think owners of boats on fresh water  should be over concerned and need not rush out to buy a new CO alarm but should buy a CO alarm that is certified for boat use when they next buy a replacement alarm. 

 

[AndrewIC]

8 hours ago, rjasmith said:

No need to spend any money to read a BSI or ISO etc standard you know!

Just go to Manchester City Libraries (MCL) Online Reference library (ideally you should become a member as I have and (I think) uniquely MCL offers library membership to ANY UK resident). From there they provide a link to British Stds Online (BSOL) (MCL pays for the BSOL access licence! Thank you MCL!). Enter the Std no of your choice in the BSOL search box and when the titles come up you'll see a little icon on the far right of it (Quick View). Click this and a read only .pdf will come up of the Std's full text.

I've just had a look at BS EN 50291-2 and the paragraphs relating to Recreational Craft are in deed interesting and definitely relate to salty boats ie the alarm must stand up to all sorts of vibration, heel angles, crashing about in waves, salt water splashing about, even non interference with marine VHF etc etc.

Have a read for yourself!

Richard

Magic! Thanks for that! 

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

I don't think owners of boats on fresh water  should be over concerned and need not rush out to buy a new CO alarm but should buy a CO alarm that is certified for boat use when they next buy a replacement alarm. 

And that is basically what the BSS advise.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

23 hours ago, rjasmith said:

No need to spend any money to read a BSI or ISO etc standard you know!

Just go to Manchester City Libraries (MCL) Online Reference library (ideally you should become a member as I have and (I think) uniquely MCL offers library membership to ANY UK resident). From there they provide a link to British Stds Online (BSOL) (MCL pays for the BSOL access licence! Thank you MCL!). Enter the Std no of your choice in the BSOL search box and when the titles come up you'll see a little icon on the far right of it (Quick View). Click this and a read only .pdf will come up of the Std's full text.

I've just had a look at BS EN 50291-2 and the paragraphs relating to Recreational Craft are in deed interesting and definitely relate to salty boats ie the alarm must stand up to all sorts of vibration, heel angles, crashing about in waves, salt water splashing about, even non interference with marine VHF etc etc.

Have a read for yourself!

Richard

 

 

Awwww I was just about to say that. Yes exactly. However, our sources at CoGDEM (the manufacturers' association) say that nearly all the models to -1 are the same, just produced and marketed before the -2 testing prcess was finalised. They put the same units through the higher (for boaties purposes) test processes. Why do I say this, to save the money of anyone who feels they have to replace a perfectly valid CO alarm.

The hot news is that the list is about to expand. Any day now I'm expecting news of the Firehawk BS EN 50291-2 alarm. I'm planning a social media blast as soon as we have published the new list. Here's the current/old one until then....

BSS CO alarms List Feb 2015.pdf

[blackrose]

On 03/03/2018 at 19:22, Sea Dog said:

Most (all?) CO alarms do not have user replaceable batteries.

Mine all do. 

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Mine all do. 

Hmm, definitely not all then so good job I added put that bit in brackets with a question mark!  Maybe not even most!  The ones I have bought since the early days, and the shortlist of  ones I considered before buying, have all been sealed and have a 7 year life. I thought it was to prevent numpties taking the battery out if the damned thing kept bothering them!

[Momac]

The two CO alarms I won have built in batteries which last the life of the unit - 7 or 10 years.

The CO alarms with replaceable batteries  seem to need new batteries annually - but the unit still has an expiry date - 7 or 10 years as far as I can see.

I guess the alarms with a lifetime battery may  be a little more expensive and may  be good value.

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Hmm, definitely not all then so good job I added put that bit in brackets with a question mark!  Maybe not even most!  The ones I have bought since the early days, and the shortlist of  ones I considered before buying, have all been sealed and have a 7 year life. I thought it was to prevent numpties taking the battery out if the damned thing kept bothering them!

Built in batteries means you must replace at 7 or 10 years but with replaceable batteries you might assume that if the sensor is perfect for 10 years it’s probably going to be ok for another 5 so you don’t buy another, also people don’t like replaceable batteries as the thing will start chirping in the middle of the night.  So 2 plus points for the manufacture.

[Detling]

I suspect the main reason for not being rated for boats, is that the cost of the testing exceeds any likely increased profits, so they can't be bothered, it does not always mean it would not pass the tests, but no one will pay for them.