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5 hours ago, Johny London said:

Last thing really is oil - almost non existent - even on google - 15/40 api cc. All I could find was Morris for about £26/5l. I'd like to do a bit better. Thought I'd cracked it today in Wilko - mineral oil 20/50 cc and only £15. So close.

 

I'm surprised you found a 15W/40 API-CC oul even from Morris.

Last I knew they do a 10W/40 and a 20W/50.

Do they now also do a 15W/40?

In my experience far more canalside outlets stock the 10W/40 than the 20W/50 - the latter is hard to find, although Rose Narrowboats was one reliable source.

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11 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I use agricultural oil from my local farm supplier, the spec is ‘better’ than that advised by Beta but fine according to the Kubota base engine spec manual.   I’ll let you know in another 5 years if it was a mistake or not.

Proper farm suppliers are a good source for all oils, filters and antifreeze always cheaper than the "high street" and never rubbish - have used this route for years.

Remember you get what you pay for especially with oils

 

Edited by Halsey
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1 hour ago, Halsey said:

Proper farm suppliers are a good source for all oils, filters and antifreeze always cheaper than the "high street" and never rubbish - have used this route for years.

Remember you get what you pay for especially with oils

 

Certainly oil filters from Kubota dealers are half the price that Cummins charge for the same. 

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11 hours ago, ianali said:

Yes fair enough. What im trying to say, after to many beers is this. Api cc grade i think may have been superceeded by other grades, CD or sf for instance. May well be wrong. 

Ian.

You are correct as far as the API is concerned but Inland boating and canal boating in particular imposes operating conditions very different the majority of vehicles. We very rarely require our engines to produce full power and for most of the time they only produce a few (less than 10) HP.  This has implications for piston ring loading and the operating temperature of the cylinder wall. Some research Lister-Petter gave me many years ago suggested that the additive pack in the oil had a bearing on the propensity to cause bore glazing. The exact design of the piston crown also seems to have an effect.

Now we are into "best guesses". The low power outputs may (not will) adversely effect the running in process so it is prudent to not use an oil that has significant wear inhibitors but once run in a "better" grade of oil is less likely to cause problems but the low wall temperatures might, especially if they are low enough to "cook" the oil film into varnish and the additive pack seems to be implicated in this so ist probably wise not to move too high up the API table. Making varnish is the cause of bore glazing.

It is interesting that Vetus (Mitsubishi based) lay down strict rules for maximum time allowed for running out of gear and told me by phone it was to prevent bore glazing yet Thornycroft (same bas engine) did not. It all comes down to personal decision having taken all you know into account.  I know BMC 1.5/1.8s bore glazed badly in Gas board vans when the engineers let them idle for hours on end to keep the cab heaters warm but they did not seem to glaze on the hire fleet.

One good thing with the present fashion for huge alternators is that they put more load on the engine at cold start than used to be the case but its probably only afew HP.

My take is that it is very important to stick to the specified grade for running in and while under guarantee but then increasing the spec a step or two is less likely to cause problems, especially if you take every responsible chance to give the engine a thrashing.  As I said in another topic I am happy with API CE or CF but would not go any higher.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Yes actually I think the best I could find from Morris was 10/40. But every time I have bought oil it has been slightly wrong - either the w rating or the cc has been cf or something - and this is from chandlers. The one time I had exactly the thing it was from an actual canaline outlet in Essex. Not cheap either, usual chandler style prices.

I wonder why a recent to market engine supplier would choose a block you can practically not get the oil for.

Regarding the filters, Is it inline or online? Online I couldn't find at all. Inline they come up with results for the oil filter but not the air or fuel filters (just the external fuel filter but not the engine one). It found both the canal line part and the mann equivalent - worryingly suggesting different replacements for each! I guess if they fit and are physically the same size the only other factor might be flow rate perhaps due to different fineness in the filtering material?

I'm sure that once I can get an equivalent air filter I'll be able to work off that number and source them - it's certainly nothing special.

I know Jono has got the same engine - he's bound to have sussed it out, I'll ask him.

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4 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Yes actually I think the best I could find from Morris was 10/40. But every time I have bought oil it has been slightly wrong - either the w rating or the cc has been cf or something - and this is from chandlers. The one time I had exactly the thing it was from an actual canaline outlet in Essex. Not cheap either, usual chandler style prices.

I wonder why a recent to market engine supplier would choose a block you can practically not get the oil for.

Regarding the filters, Is it inline or online? Online I couldn't find at all. Inline they come up with results for the oil filter but not the air or fuel filters (just the external fuel filter but not the engine one). It found both the canal line part and the mann equivalent - worryingly suggesting different replacements for each! I guess if they fit and are physically the same size the only other factor might be flow rate perhaps due to different fineness in the filtering material?

I'm sure that once I can get an equivalent air filter I'll be able to work off that number and source them - it's certainly nothing special.

I know Jono has got the same engine - he's bound to have sussed it out, I'll ask him.

Inline filters. There in Cornwall. Very good service. Mainly Baldwin filters, made in Morocco, but very good and the spin on filters seem tougher than usual, seem to be made of thicker metal.

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2 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Yes actually I think the best I could find from Morris was 10/40. But every time I have bought oil it has been slightly wrong - either the w rating or the cc has been cf or something - and this is from chandlers. The one time I had exactly the thing it was from an actual canaline outlet in Essex. Not cheap either, usual chandler style prices.

I wonder why a recent to market engine supplier would choose a block you can practically not get the oil for.

Regarding the filters, Is it inline or online? Online I couldn't find at all. Inline they come up with results for the oil filter but not the air or fuel filters (just the external fuel filter but not the engine one). It found both the canal line part and the mann equivalent - worryingly suggesting different replacements for each! I guess if they fit and are physically the same size the only other factor might be flow rate perhaps due to different fineness in the filtering material?

I'm sure that once I can get an equivalent air filter I'll be able to work off that number and source them - it's certainly nothing special.

I know Jono has got the same engine - he's bound to have sussed it out, I'll ask him.

1. You can get oil for it but perhaps at a cost.

2. As I explained above inland applications are very different to most others so the MARINISER may well specify a different oil to the base engine manufacturer if they think it will help engine life for inland marine use.

 

What you call the "w rating" is the viscosity rating and that means the runnyness of the oil. The first number (e.g. the 20 in 20W50) tells us how runny the oil is when cold, the second (the 50) gives the runnyness when hot. The volume of oil, temperatures at which the oil is tested and the hole the oil has to run through are specified. The numbers are actually seconds.

In the UK where we rarely get Arctic conditions it probably will not matter much if you go up a viscosity rating and as we also tend not to operate in equatorial conditions going down a step is also unlikely to cause major problem. so of 15W40 is specified I personally would happuily use 20W50 or 10W30 but in an older, well worn engine dropping down may not be such a good idea in respect of oil consumption.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

One good thing with the present fashion for huge alternators is that they put more load on the engine at cold start than used to be the case but its probably only afew HP.

Yes, very little. 1kW (which would be around a 70A alternator on a 12V system running flat out) is only about one and a third hp. So a slight extra load but not much. 

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15 hours ago, Johny London said:

Thanks - but this is the problem, no one does 15/40, only 20/50 (except Morris).

10/30 is a good alternative and suitable for 'older' engines.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111688069117?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

Or if you really want 15/40

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PREMIUM-15w40-DIESEL-ENGINE-OIL-20L-25L-5-GALLON/112758214998?hash=item1a40e9d156:m:mtNrT3ViWbe5HtUcW6v_K7A

 

And another (bit cheaper) one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15w40-Mannol-Standard-universal-Mineral-Engine-Oil-20-L-Oil-API-CF-SL-20-litre-/302050774930?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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20 hours ago, Johny London said:

After getting regularly ripped off for consumables (oil/air filters and oil etc) I have finally been trying to find reliable alternative sources.

I had a stroke of luck at a chandlers -they sold me an equivalent oil filter, by a company called MANN. So now I have a "regular" part number I can offer to car shops/factors etc. It was "only" £9.50 so I got two, but have since found that Eurocarparts stock them for a fiver (on offer but aren't they always). That's good because there are plenty of those places around.

I didn't have any luck with the air filter yet though and the best I could do was £15 on line (ouch!). But when that gets to me hopefully it will reveal an equivalent part number that can be gotten hold of more easily or at least cross referenced.

Last thing really is oil - almost non existent - even on google - 15/40 api cc. All I could find was Morris for about £26/5l. I'd like to do a bit better. Thought I'd cracked it today in Wilko - mineral oil 20/50 cc and only £15. So close.

This is for a canaline 42 - if anyone is interested the oil filter is W914/26

You could try these people for your oil http://www.rockoil.co.uk/cm/images/pdf/brochure/rock_oil_low_res_brochure_marine.pdf

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I use golden syrup in gallon cans from my local cash and carry. It doesn't have an api rating on it, but that's just the fat cat capitalist pig oil baron's way of fleecing the public - it looks just the same as Castrol GTX and is a bit thicker so it'll probably be better. Plus, as you can eat it, it must be more eco friendly.

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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

I use golden syrup in gallon cans from my local cash and carry. It doesn't have an api rating on it, but that's just the fat cat capitalist pig oil baron's way of fleecing the public - it looks just the same as Castrol GTX and is a bit thicker so it'll probably be better. Plus, as you can eat it, it must be more eco friendly.

Should stop that nasty rattling noise your engine makes, too! Sweet!

Edited by TheBiscuits
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