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Straight sided boats ?


PMcC

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Hi I'm looking for a 57' narrowboat and an awful lot seem to have more upright sides than what I consider normal, I can see the advantage but personally prefer the more slanted ones. Is there a disadvantage to upright sides, low tunnels for example or doesn't it make any difference apart from the look. I'M REFERING TO THE CABIN  TUMBLEHOME

Thanks

Edited by PMcC
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7 minutes ago, PMcC said:

Hi I'm looking for a 57' narrowboat and an awful lot seem to have more upright sides than what I consider normal, I can see the advantage but personally prefer the more slanted ones. Is there a disadvantage to upright sides, low tunnels for example or doesn't it make any difference apart from the look.

Thanks

Do you mean cabin sides as in Tumbleholme? If so the squarer they are the more room there is and the uglier they look and yes more chance in very tight locals of striking front cabin edge. Most are a happy medium between looks and space it depends on your take on things.

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4 minutes ago, PMcC said:

Hi I'm looking for a 57' narrowboat and an awful lot seem to have more upright sides than what I consider normal, I can see the advantage but personally prefer the more slanted ones. Is there a disadvantage to upright sides, low tunnels for example or doesn't it make any difference apart from the look.

Thanks

It makes a huge difference on internal space - ours is 8" narrower at floor level than just under the gunwales.

As a narrowboat is not a "proper" boat I wouldn't worry about it too much. The 4" narrower each side doesn't make much difference to being able to get in to the bank, and the extra ten square feet of floor would come in handy most of the time!

 

Meh! I'm talking about the hull, not the cabin.

We have even more tumblehome than that, and it does come in handy outside if you walk the gunwales often when handling the boat, but you suffer for it inside the cabin.  We just got used to walking bent sideways inside :)

Edited by TheBiscuits
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5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

It makes a huge difference on internal space - ours is 8" narrower at floor level than just under the gunwales.

As a narrowboat is not a "proper" boat I wouldn't worry about it too much. The 4" narrower each side doesn't make much difference to being able to get in to the bank, and the extra ten square feet of floor would come in handy most of the time!

 

Meh! I'm talking about the hull, not the cabin.

Some shell builders taper the hull width down so they can build off a standard 2m wide baseplate. Others use a wider baseplate and vertical hull sides. Costs more but gives more room inside.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 'slopey' sides is called 'Tumblehome'.

Yes you need some to be able to get thru arched bridges / tunnels.

You can tell a boat built by a boat builder and those built by 'Skip' manufacturers or jobbing welders who fancy diversifying into boats

Oh Thanks 'Tumblehome' They seem a lot cheaper but They do look ugly, So I'm looking for a good reason not to save  £10.000 :)

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14 minutes ago, PMcC said:

Hi I'm looking for a 57' narrowboat and an awful lot seem to have more upright sides than what I consider normal, I can see the advantage but personally prefer the more slanted ones. Is there a disadvantage to upright sides, low tunnels for example or doesn't it make any difference apart from the look.

Thanks

There are two trains of thought going on here.

Are you talking about the slope of the cabin sides (above the gunwhale) or the Hull sides (below the Gunwhale)

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are two trains of thought going on here.

Are you talking about the slope of the cabin sides (above the gunwhale) or the Hull sides (below the Gunwhale)

The cabin not the hull I've edited the post to make it more clear , thanks

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5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Some shell builders taper the hull width down so they can build off a standard 2m wide baseplate. Others use a wider baseplate and vertical hull sides. Costs more but gives more room inside.

Metres? My boat was built in 1/4" steel, none of this metric nonsense :)

 

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Just now, PMcC said:

The cabin not the hull I've edited the post to make it more clear , thanks

Yup - that's the Tumbleholme and you need some, people that don't build boats make the sides 'straight' as its easier (and cheaper)

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Metres? My boat was built in 1/4" steel, none of this metric nonsense :)

 

Is it a 1/300 scale model - most have the base plate around 6' 6" 

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Sloping cabin sides, i.e. tumblehome, is a Good Thing, you need it.

Firstly, it is very important when going under an arched bridge. Many bridges bear scars on the brickwork where the leading edge of a cabin has struck them. A badly steered narrow boat with tumblehome can easily hit a bridge like this, damaging both its own paintwork and the brickwork, sometimes culminating in such damage that the bridge must be repaired to stop it collapsing; without tumblehome the risk is much higher. You'll never see an old working narrow boat without tumblehome, because they were built to be moved about a lot. Time was money and the crew didn't want to be slowing right down for every bridge hole.

Next, it makes walking along the gunwhales much easier. The crew still need to look ahead for bridges etc. which could crush them, think where they're treading and hold on to a rail, but are less likely to fall. It's quite possible to navigate without anyone ever walking the gunwhales, especially if you can walk through the boat to the bow as on most boats, but it's often a handy thing to do, for example to avoid treading mud through the interior without taking boots off.

Finally, it just looks right. A boxy cabin will give a little more space inside, might cost a little less to make (surely not £10,000 less?), and may make sense if you (and anyone you eventually sell the boat on to if you can) hardly ever intend to move the boat, but it'll be ugly.

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13 minutes ago, Peter X said:

Sloping cabin sides, i.e. tumblehome, is a Good Thing, you need it.

Firstly, it is very important when going under an arched bridge. Many bridges bear scars on the brickwork where the leading edge of a cabin has struck them. A badly steered narrow boat with tumblehome can easily hit a bridge like this, damaging both its own paintwork and the brickwork, sometimes culminating in such damage that the bridge must be repaired to stop it collapsing; without tumblehome the risk is much higher. You'll never see an old working narrow boat without tumblehome, because they were built to be moved about a lot. Time was money and the crew didn't want to be slowing right down for every bridge hole.

Next, it makes walking along the gunwhales much easier. The crew still need to look ahead for bridges etc. which could crush them, think where they're treading and hold on to a rail, but are less likely to fall. It's quite possible to navigate without anyone ever walking the gunwhales, especially if you can walk through the boat to the bow as on most boats, but it's often a handy thing to do, for example to avoid treading mud through the interior without taking boots off.

Finally, it just looks right. A boxy cabin will give a little more space inside, might cost a little less to make (surely not £10,000 less?), and may make sense if you (and anyone you eventually sell the boat on to if you can) hardly ever intend to move the boat, but it'll be ugly.

Thanks you've backed up what I thought, second hand boats seem to be cheaper when in the 60,000 range but they are ugly and the wider top will make it more difficult for me alone. So I'll just have to fork out for a good looking boat. Many thanks.

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Remember folks with 25 tonnes on nutty slag in the hold and a fast trip required bridge holes only slowed progress by depth not angle of bridge arch.

reminds me of a conversationwith a shiny boat at wilmcote this year ' im not coming here again this canals so slow' response '"well it is a horse boat canal not built for motors". He looked at me shock  his head and said 'dont know what you are talking about'    We fired up and into bridge 42 i think a bridge where we were once stuck with the forend and had to remove screeding to get through. Course i went in gently and walked the boat through and it did its usual stick and then wiggle through. By this time he was on our fender standing on the front his boat demanding we get out of the way!!!

i told him i was treating the canal and my boat with a bit of respect and had once been there 4 hours and wanted to avoid repetition

his poor wife was so embarressed , we cleared the bridge and trundled off at a stately 1 mph cruising speed. I was delighted to take the only available mooring at wet and warm. He screamed past the moorings and smacked straight into a hire boat coming through the bridge hole at the end of the straight. I suspect he was having a relaxing holiday  that day was summer  but couldnt recognise it ,  everything wrong in his life was someone elses fault. 

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The East West boats site (office in Northern Ireland) says:

Our manufacturing facility is renowned for its highly skilled and dedicated crafts people, who have been specially commissioned from all over China.

So are they building the whole boat in China, and are these crafts people aware of the many arched bridges on our canals?

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6 minutes ago, Peter X said:

The East West boats site (office in Northern Ireland) says:

Our manufacturing facility is renowned for its highly skilled and dedicated crafts people, who have been specially commissioned from all over China.

So are they building the whole boat in China, and are these crafts people aware of the many arched bridges on our canals?

I think that they ceased producing them some years ago. Yes, they were built in China - I believe that the fit-out was done using bamboo wood. Their most common length was 44 feet, as a boat of that length would fit into a standard sea container. Perhaps they built them as wide as possible too, which would account for the lack of tumblehome.

 

I seem to remember an expression "Birmingham square" which described British boats built with straight sides, but I could be mistaken - and someone will soon tell me if I am!

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I've seen quite a few new Collingwood widebeams recently and compared to my 13 year old Liverpool Boat they have almost no tumblehome. I'm only comparing as Collingwood are supposed to be the rebranded LB, but they look very different to me.

 

 

Harefield3.JPG

Edited by blackrose
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39 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think that they ceased producing them some years ago. Yes, they were built in China - I believe that the fit-out was done using bamboo wood. Their most common length was 44 feet, as a boat of that length would fit into a standard sea container. Perhaps they built them as wide as possible too, which would account for the lack of tumblehome.

 

I seem to remember an expression "Birmingham square" which described British boats built with straight sides, but I could be mistaken - and someone will soon tell me if I am!

I think “Birmingham square” may have been invented by Mr Tyler and his good friend Mr Wilson, along with “Joshua style”.. 

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57 minutes ago, Peter X said:

The East West boats site (office in Northern Ireland) says:

Our manufacturing facility is renowned for its highly skilled and dedicated crafts people, who have been specially commissioned from all over China.

So are they building the whole boat in China, and are these crafts people aware of the many arched bridges on our canals?

As if the Chinese are aware of our canal bridges. Next you will be expecting  English people to have heard of the Great wall of China. Ridiculous huh!

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3 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I think “Birmingham square” may have been invented by Mr Tyler and his good friend Mr Wilson, along with “Joshua style”.. 

I don't think so - it was used to refer to some BCN boats with straight sides - though these would probably have been the hull, rather than superstructure, sides, which were a bit wider than average. Joshua, or Josher, style, refers to Fellows, Morton & Clayton boats, or boats built in their style; the name comes from a director of the original company, one Joshua Fellows.

Edited by Athy
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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I don't think so - it was used to refer to some BCN boats with straight sides

Not so.

I don't think "Birmingham Square" is in any way applied to old BCN day boats. (Most ex working boats anyway have near vertical sides).
 

I believe it relates to specifically leisure boat hulls built on a wide baseplate of around 6' 10", rather than the more normal 2 metres, resulting in the vertical sides.  The "Birmingham" bit comes from the fact that most leisure boat builders choosing to do this came from the Birmingham area.  I think it probably correct that the term was invented by these boat builders.

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Just now, alan_fincher said:

Not so.

I don't think "Birmingham Square" is in any way applied to old BCN day boats. (Most ex working boats anyway have near vertical sides).
 

I believe it relates to specifically leisure boat hulls built on a wide baseplate of around 6' 10", rather than the more normal 2 metres, resulting in the vertical sides.  The "Birmingham" bit comes from the fact that most leisure boat builders choosing to do this came from the Birmingham area.  I think it probably correct that the term was invented by these boat builders.

Not, then, by Tyler Wilson who are based in Yorkshire.

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