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Does anybody else have problems with Burscough Boats?


JillD

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My partner and I ordered the build of two 70ft widebeams which were delivered to the Thames in January and April last year (2017). As they claim, Burscough Boats do seem to build good steel foundations for their boats (unless there are more surprises to come...).

 

While the boats look lovely, the experience of dealing with Burscough to address issues caused by their rushed workmanship has had a devastating effect on us as well as robbing us of time and quality of life.

 

So many of these have been down to bad installation and lack of attention to detail, including gauges incorrectly installed, fuel leaks (50 litres on one occasion), a failure to secure the generator in the stern, and the rear fender fitted so it impeded the rudder. 

 

To go into detail of just one example of many:

For months after delivery of our boats, we had to live in what I can only describe as a sewer. The most unbearable smell was all caused by wrong fittings, lack of gaskets and washers and nothing sealed properly. Despite visits down from Burscough, they did not fix the problem so we had to find someone who solved it but at our (considerable) expense: financially and in terms of time.

 

The latest.. although not really the latest, given that the systems have never worked properly on both boats, is that we are without adequate heating on either. Burscough just failed to respond. We have had to instruct an independent accredited firm to step in and help solve the problem. One boat is sporting a borrowed fuel pump and the other has issues caused by Burscough failing to install it properly.. 

 

When the heating failed on one boat, the first fault diagnosed was the fitting of the wrong size pipe connecting the Webasto heating system. To compensate, Burscough merely fitted an extra jubilee clip. This clearly wasn't good enough or to the manufacturer's specification, and the water from the heating system leaked out. This was fixed by the local dealer but water is still disappearing. He found a second leak at the back of the kitchen cupboards requiring the units and possibly the granite to be removed in order to reach it. 

 

Burscough have not fitted an inspection hatch on either boat.

 

A report prepared by the local dealer revealed that the system had been badly damaged as a consequence of Burscough's faulty installation. Burscough have been contacted by email and phone on numerous occasions requesting them to dis-assemble the units to allow the second leak to be fixed and to make good the system (either by replacement or having a main dealer repair it to manufacturer's satisfaction). 

 

It should be Burscough dealing with this, but they aren't. Worse, they aren't enabling the matter to be addressed. 

 

This  issue has been going on since before Christmas. I appealed to them yesterday sending them photographs of our boat in the snow.....no reply.  The weather has worsened; the marina has frozen solid with half an inch of ice.

 

You might suggest that we bring in outside contractors and then claim the cost back from Burscough. But it took them two months to settle a £180 bill we initially paid for a gauge they had incorrectly fitted.  The heater problems will be considerably more, and a glance at Burscough's accounts and financial history suggest that recourse to law might not result in repayment regardless of judgment. 

 

The thing is, we are not alone. We have been in discussion with three Burscough customers who acquired their boats immediately before or after us, and they have been enduring similar traumas. We would be interested to hear from other owners.

 

All new boats have teething problems, but what we have endured are a consequence of Burscough's workmanship (!) and a failure to honour their commitments.

 

JillD

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A lesson there for all. 

Doing a glance at Burscough's accounts and financial history which suggests that recourse to law might not result in repayment regardless of judgment is maybe something to do as part of your research before placing an order?

In your situation I think by now I'd have started camping out in their office dressed in my best farmyard stained Tramp clothes along with my pack of untrained dogs. 

Guaranteed to attract media interest as well as Burscough's.

 

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Sorry to hear of your problems, getting a new boat(s) and finding stuff significantly wrong must be upsetting and stressful. I’m not sure what anyone on here can do to help you, but (and you’re not going to like this I suspect) I do have one thought:

Looking at the prices for their fully fitted narrowboats they are very cheap (I’m not au fait with WB prices). I suspect this might have been a significant factor in why you chose a builder in the North West, when the boats were to be based in the South East. Unfortunately in this world things tend to be cheap for a reason and, being realistic about it, you can’t expect the same quality of build as you would have got if you’d spent 50% more. Therefore one way of looking at it is that you could just spend some of the extra that you could have spent buying more expensive boats, on making your boats the way they would have been if you bought mid-priced ones!

 I told you you wouldn’t like it!

Edited by nicknorman
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15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Sorry to hear of your problems, getting a new boat(s) and finding stuff significantly wrong must be upsetting and stressful. I’m not sure what anyone on here can do to help you, but (and you’re not going to like this I suspect) I do have one thought:

Looking at the prices for their fully fitted narrowboats they are very cheap (I’m not au fait with WB prices). I suspect this might have been a significant factor in why you chose a builder in the North West, when the boats were to be based in the South East. Unfortunately in this world things tend to be cheap for a reason and, being realistic about it, you can’t expect the same quality of build as you would have got if you’d spent 50% more. Therefore one way of looking at it is that you could just spend some of the extra that you could have spent buying more expensive boats, on making your boats the way they would have been if you bought mid-priced ones!

 I told you you wouldn’t like it!

What a load of absolute tosh. Stuff can be done on the cheap by using cheaper components But if cheaper components are used the installations must still be fit for purpose. If you had cared to read the OP properly it would seem that the problems have been caused by the installers not fitting parts properly or not fitting parts at all. Those parts will have been supplied with the items but it seems that the installers just couldn't be bothered to fit them.

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To rephrase what Nick ha said with a bit more philosophy, this is all a problem with competitive tendering and the free market, and partly why Carrillion have just gone under.

The work goes to these who submit the lowest quote and so everybody quotes dangerously low. I expect the boatbulder then had to cut a few corners to avoid making a loss; use bits of pipe that they had in stock rather than buying new stuff of the correct diameter, spend rather less time checking for leaks etc etc. Its no good for you, and probably not so good for them, they would have loved to have quoted higher and had the satisfaction of doing a top job. 

I expect they hoped that if everything went well they would have just made a little profit, but things never go 100% well. The profit margin has already gone, if you chase them for more fixes they will be making a loss and maybe go bankrupt because they are not working on the next build to keep the cash flowing.

We hear this again and again about many boatbuilders. If you look on the www you will even find reports of similar issues with top builders like Hudson, I expect even he had to charge a bit less than he would have liked.

.............Dave

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Did you not find these problems after the first boat was delivered in January, in time to cancel or postone payment of the second one delivered in April. Not being nosey, ''not much'' but two 70ft WIDEbeams, have you both had a row?

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4 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Did you not find these problems after the first boat was delivered in January, in time to cancel or postone payment of the second one delivered in April. Not being nosey, ''not much'' but two 70ft WIDEbeams, have you both had a row?

Doesn't help at all but perhaps the second one is a butty? 

Progress & Eagle.

6775339322_7e312065b7.jpg

Edited by Ray T
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2 hours ago, pete.i said:

What a load of absolute tosh. Stuff can be done on the cheap by using cheaper components But if cheaper components are used the installations must still be fit for purpose. If you had cared to read the OP properly it would seem that the problems have been caused by the installers not fitting parts properly or not fitting parts at all. Those parts will have been supplied with the items but it seems that the installers just couldn't be bothered to fit them.

Thank you for your well considered and courteous response. What you haven’t thought of is that a large chunk of the cost a fully fitted new boat, is labour. If you go for the cheapest, the fixtures fittings and system parts are likely to all be more or less fit for purpose, and often the same stuff as would be fitted to a more expensive boat, but what suffers is the labour element. Things done in haste by people paid little (and thus probably will little skill).

Of course the installation SHOULD be fit for purpose, but living in the real world as we do, often stuff done down to a price, isn’t. It isn’t like buying a car, where the whole shebang is subject to safety legislation etc. A boat’s services and fit-out can be to any old standard provided it (hopefully, if you are lucky) complies with the RCD. The RCD is mostly about safety, not about eg whether the toilet stinks. In reality with builders certifying compliance with the RCD themselves, the process is open to abuse.

Edited by nicknorman
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2 hours ago, dmr said:

We hear this again and again about many boatbuilders. If you look on the www you will even find reports of similar issues with top builders like Hudson, I expect even he had to charge a bit less than he would have liked.

.............Dave

The thing with Hudson boats is that they aren’t actually that expensive. He made over 200 to a “formula” and if you wanted something fairly straightforward and standard, I think it was very good value for money. Of course if you wanted a load of custom stuff in the fit-out, you could rack the price up (eg Sarah Kay) but that was at the customer’s choice.

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They were built pretty much at the same time. And yes, if we did have a row, we could both storm off at 4knots per hour in the opposite direction...

We did not pay cheap prices for our boats and sadly, the problems were not evident immediately....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My partner and I ordered the build of two 70ft widebeams which were delivered to the Thames in January and April last year (2017). As they claim, Burscough Boats do seem to build good steel foundations for their boats (unless there are more surprises to come...).

 

While the boats look lovely, the experience of dealing with Burscough to address issues caused by their rushed workmanship has had a devastating effect on us as well as robbing us of time and quality of life.

 

So many of these have been down to bad installation and lack of attention to detail, including gauges incorrectly installed, fuel leaks (50 litres on one occasion), a failure to secure the generator in the stern, and the rear fender fitted so it impeded the rudder. 

 

To go into detail of just one example of many:

For months after delivery of our boats, we had to live in what I can only describe as a sewer. The most unbearable smell was all caused by wrong fittings, lack of gaskets and washers and nothing sealed properly. Despite visits down from Burscough, they did not fix the problem so we had to find someone who solved it but at our (considerable) expense: financially and in terms of time.

 

The latest.. although not really the latest, given that the systems have never worked properly on both boats, is that we are without adequate heating on either. Burscough just failed to respond. We have had to instruct an independent accredited firm to step in and help solve the problem. One boat is sporting a borrowed fuel pump and the other has issues caused by Burscough failing to install it properly.. 

 

When the heating failed on one boat, the first fault diagnosed was the fitting of the wrong size pipe connecting the Webasto heating system. To compensate, Burscough merely fitted an extra jubilee clip. This clearly wasn't good enough or to the manufacturer's specification, and the water from the heating system leaked out. This was fixed by the local dealer but water is still disappearing. He found a second leak at the back of the kitchen cupboards requiring the units and possibly the granite to be removed in order to reach it. 

 

Burscough have not fitted an inspection hatch on either boat.

 

A report prepared by the local dealer revealed that the system had been badly damaged as a consequence of Burscough's faulty installation. Burscough have been contacted by email and phone on numerous occasions requesting them to dis-assemble the units to allow the second leak to be fixed and to make good the system (either by replacement or having a main dealer repair it to manufacturer's satisfaction). 

 

It should be Burscough dealing with this, but they aren't. Worse, they aren't enabling the matter to be addressed. 

 

This  issue has been going on since before Christmas. I appealed to them yesterday sending them photographs of our boat in the snow.....no reply.  The weather has worsened; the marina has frozen solid with half an inch of ice.

 

You might suggest that we bring in outside contractors and then claim the cost back from Burscough. But it took them two months to settle a £180 bill we initially paid for a gauge they had incorrectly fitted.  The heater problems will be considerably more, and a glance at Burscough's accounts and financial history suggest that recourse to law might not result in repayment regardless of judgment. 

 

The thing is, we are not alone. We have been in discussion with three Burscough customers who acquired their boats immediately before or after us, and they have been enduring similar traumas. We would be interested to hear from other owners.

 

All new boats have teething problems, but what we have endured are a consequence of Burscough's workmanship (!) and a failure to honour their commitments.

 

JillD

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11 minutes ago, JillD said:

we could both storm off at 4knots per hour in the opposite direction...

 

Ooo look a dimensional faux pas!*

Knots per hour is a rate of acceleration (or deceleration), not widely needed or used in the world of boating.

 

*Dear OP, we like spotting dimensional faux pas on here. You'll get used to it ;) 

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15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

The thing with Hudson boats is that they aren’t actually that expensive. He made over 200 to a “formula” and if you wanted something fairly straightforward and standard, I think it was very good value for money. Of course if you wanted a load of custom stuff in the fit-out, you could rack the price up (eg Sarah Kay) but that was at the customer’s choice.

I would agree. Although some people see Hudsons as top notch boats they were actually relatively cheap for what you got.

We briefly thought about getting a new boat built and I found the Hudson website very useful as it had set prices for various grades of boats and set prices for various optional extras, some other builders were rather vague about what the cost would be and what we might actually get.

............Dave

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ooo look a dimensional faux pas!*

Knots per hour is a rate of acceleration (or deceleration), not widely needed or used in the world of boating.

 

*Dear OP, we like spotting dimensional faux pas on here. You'll get used to it ;) 

Oooo. Pardon me.

Thank you for your guidance:unsure:

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I don't know Burscough boats but I do have some knowledge of boatbuilders and to be honest a good many are not backed by years of experience in boats, building, or fitting. Many of their employees can be skilled in carpentry, mechanical stuff, electrics or whatever but not always in the relatively niche world of canal boats. I am not attacking any one firm or in fact any company here. This does not necessarily help you but you now own two boats with some ongoing history of faults and this is not your fault in any way. However, for what its worth, if you own a boat (s) you must get the hang of fixing stuff, this is not often appreciated in this modern world where we are used to buying stuff with guarantees and produced in factories with modern methods. Boats are always to some degree 'One Offs' and the bloke who installed the loo / lighting / engine etc. might never have done one before quite the same. If you buy a boat you are buying something like a Morris Minor, you will have to do the points and plugs, work out why the b****** won't start and probably change the gearbox after 80,000 miles. Good luck

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1 hour ago, JillD said:

You might suggest that we bring in outside contractors and then claim the cost back from Burscough. But it took them two months to settle a £180 bill we initially paid for a gauge they had incorrectly fitted.  The heater problems will be considerably more, and a glance at Burscough's accounts and financial history suggest that recourse to law might not result in repayment regardless of judgment. 

£180 to refit ‘a gauge’ sounds extortionate but cost of that notwithstanding I think you’ve shown above that you know what you’ve got to do, ‘cos the boatbuilder probably won’t be doing it. Namely, fix yourself (cheapest) or have fixed (most expensive) whatever issues remain. Once it’s all sorted you can attempt to extract that money from the builder but if they’re men of straw then it’s likely to be a fruitless exercise. 

Instead of wasting months unsuccessfully attempting to get the builder to fix things he’s never going to fix just bite the bullet and get it fixed yourself. Then you can start to enjoy your boats. 

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Thanks. I'm sure you are right.

The reason it cost so much to fix the gauge is: 

The cost of the gauge plus the fact that Burscough had built the toilet back wall over access to the gauge, added the toilet cistern and then sealed the granite over the top. Getting access to the wires was the difficult bit.

 

Edited by JillD
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Its not just Burscough boats, lots are getting on the bandwagon to build boats, not all can put the complete package together although some bits work well.

Quality control is a major "Big Miss" at the moment across the industry, so many boats are being thrown out so quickly that corners are being cut to reduce the two year waiting lists to a year.

You don't have to spend a fortune in getting a job done well, Aintree do a good job with their basic boat plans, and everything is put together well.

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40 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Its not just Burscough boats, lots are getting on the bandwagon to build boats, not all can put the complete package together although some bits work well.

Quality control is a major "Big Miss" at the moment across the industry, so many boats are being thrown out so quickly that corners are being cut to reduce the two year waiting lists to a year.

You don't have to spend a fortune in getting a job done well, Aintree do a good job with their basic boat plans, and everything is put together well.

Aintree do seem be building a good reputation and their prices are very reasonable. Do you know some who has one of their boats or do you have one yourself?

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Sorry to hear of your problems . I disagree that new boats are like morris minors and  you should expect to have to deal with major issues. Whilst everything needs to be shaken down this is more than that.

several thoughts. Do you have marine legal protection  on your insurance?  back in the day this could be used to initiate legal representation for dispute resolution specificaly for the boat. Dont know what the policies do now 30 plus years out of business

secondly citizens advice

thirdly did you go through broker or direct.

 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Just don't ever mention "Amps her hour" or you'll never hear the last of it!!

you just did :angry:

 

 

on the related issue of competitive tendering, there used to be cartels in some industries (prob'ly still are) where tender prices were submitted to the cartel committee and the lowest and highest were discounted - the remainder were passed on the the client.  In some cases, I understand, this went one step further by selecting the middle price and adjusting the lower prices upwards so that the middle price won the tender.  If you examine the consequences, it makes a lot of sense, providing the original prices were not rigged..

Edited by Murflynn
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3 hours ago, rgreg said:

Aintree do seem be building a good reputation and their prices are very reasonable. Do you know some who has one of their boats or do you have one yourself?

I have seen several on launch and a couple in for service. Far better under the water finish than another yard a mile away which are also throwing widebeams out by the dozen. 

Oh, and yes, I do have photos to back up my statements.

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