Just looking

[Eddie b]

So, my wife and I (Eddie and Barb) have a motor home at present and our favourite site is located on the edge of the river were a lot of canal boats pass through, always giving a wave or a hello, anyway I now have it in my head that I want a narrow boat, and being a bit handy with a tool box I fancy a new shell or a saleaway, this obviously gives rise to the need for a place to work from which I am looking into, barb feels we should be looking at second hand and getting right in there. Going my way means a lot of time and at 63 and still working it will be a "lot of time".

Best advise so far has been to try it out first, so we have a hire boat booked for start of april, then if it is for us, and I am convinced it is, then we need to get started. So any tips and guidance anyone can offer would be great. Many thanks Eddie.

 

[Stilllearning]

Welcome to the forum both of you.

If you search through the threads you will find many answers to your questions, good luck.

[mrsmelly]

My absolute main bit of advice is DO NOT buy a new shell for your first boat. Buy a used boat first and find out what you realy want and if you realy like it first.

[Grassman]

 

That's a good starting point and it will give you a feel for it but it won't really be anything like it would be if actually living on a boat. However if you enjoy the week and decide to carry on with your plans then do your research on here and elsewhere you will be much better prepared for what you would be letting yourself in for.

 

Welcome to the forum, and the best of luck with your plans.

[Eddie b]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

My absolute main bit of advice is DO NOT buy a new shell for your first boat. Buy a used boat first and find out what you realy want and if you realy like it first.

Thanks for your input, can you expand on your reasons for not buying a new shell, I understand that while buying a used boat you can see what you are buying, but surely you can plan the whole layout of a new shell.

[Movin' on]

1 minute ago, Eddie b said:

Thanks for your input, can you expand on your reasons for not buying a new shell, I understand that while buying a used boat you can see what you are buying, but surely you can plan the whole layout of a new shell.

If you haven't been boating before then you are not the man to plan a new boat please be contnet to rely on tried and tested solutions from reputable builders and go for good used or even "pre-owned!"

Make sure you enjoy the journey but don't try to re-invent the wheel

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Eddie b said:

Thanks for your input, can you expand on your reasons for not buying a new shell, I understand that while buying a used boat you can see what you are buying, but surely you can plan the whole layout of a new shell.

Hi 

I bought and fitted anew shell in 99/2000 after already having ten years experience. Even after fitting from new there were things at the end I would have changed. You realy need to try the life or hobby out first to truly understand what you realy need to suit you and the boss. Used boats offer valuable experience  and are easily re sold if you want to without monetary loss or TIME. I have had four more boats since the one I fitted.

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

Thanks for your input, can you expand on your reasons for not buying a new shell, I understand that while buying a used boat you can see what you are buying, but surely you can plan the whole layout of a new shell.

Until you have tried boating for a bit how do you know what you want for the whole layout of a new shell?

[Sea Dog]

37 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

So, my wife and I (Eddie and Barb)

Hmm, let me see if I'm reading this right: your wife is called Eddie and you're Barb?

1. Hiring. Good idea - you're already a lap ahead of many first time boat buyers!

2. Sailaway. Listen to MrSmelly's advice which comes from years of experience and leave this to those who know enough about narrowboats to fit one out in a way that really works.  This could well be you one day, but it isn't yet, however easy and attractive it sounds.  All narrowboats are a huge design compromise and the more you have lived with such compromises, the better you'll be at judging which ones a. actually work, and b. suit you and Barb best.

3. Used boat. I'd go for a well built boat from a respected builder first - actually,  I did! Living with some of the things they did which I perhaps wouldn't have chosen has taught me a lot - whilst not perfect, those guys have learned a thing or two about which are the right compromises over the years.

Good luck in your venture - if you've managed life in a wobbly box, you should love the relative luxury a well designed Narrowboat can bring. 

 

PS. MrSmelly's second post, written whilst I was typing, illustrates exactly what I was on about in para 2!

Edited March 1, 2018 by Sea Dog
PS

[Eddie b]

1 minute ago, Halsey said:

If you haven't been boating before then you are not the man to plan a new boat please be contnet to rely on tried and tested solutions from reputable builders and go for good used or even "pre-owned!"

Make sure you enjoy the journey but don't try to re-invent the wheel

Wow, right well I will always bow to experience, and I'm assuming you have "boatloads" of that (pardon the pun) but as I thought I have hinted towards I am not about to attempt building the arc after a god like vision, and re- inventing the wheel is not my intention, that's the main reason for seeking advise on this forum. I am looking towards doing something that has been done many times before both professionally and DIY. For information my life experience to date built 2 houses, built my motor home, by built I mean built total with no other professionals.

[TheBiscuits]

12 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

Wow, right well I will always bow to experience, and I'm assuming you have "boatloads" of that (pardon the pun) but as I thought I have hinted towards I am not about to attempt building the arc after a god like vision, and re- inventing the wheel is not my intention, that's the main reason for seeking advise on this forum. I am looking towards doing something that has been done many times before both professionally and DIY. For information my life experience to date built 2 houses, built my motor home, by built I mean built total with no other professionals.

I'd say it all depends if you want to go boating or you want to go boatbuilding.

There are a lot of "project boats" that are nothing but man caves to escape the house, and are unlikely to ever be finished.

While it certainly sounds like you have the skills to do the practical work, as others have said you need the experience of living with a working fitout.

You could consider getting a usable but tired fitout and then modifying to suit yourselves later, but this always turns into more work than expected.

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'd say it all depends if you want to go boating or you want to go boatbuilding.

 

Eddie, it sounds from your first post that Barb wants to go boating and you want to go boatbuilding. Barb is going to get cheesed off if you spend 2 years fitting out a boat (perhaps). Mrs Bob would.

Fitting a boat out is not like building a house. You know what you want when you build a house. You dont know what you need for a boat. Take Mr Smelly's advice and get out on the water now.

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

For information my life experience to date built 2 houses, built my motor home, by built I mean built total with no other professionals.

The main difference between building a motor home and a boat is the need to comply with the European Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) which specifies exactly what type of 'stuff' (from water pipes, to electric cables and gas piping), involves many specifications, having the boat 'stability tested, and lots more.

The issues from a personal point of view are where to put everything, Bedroom at the back, middle or front, - why ? do you walk thru the Kitchen or the bathroom to get to the bedroom,  do your visitors have to walk thru the bedroom to get to the bathroom ?

Gas heating, diesel heating (blown air or radiators) or Coal fired ? - whereabouts in the boat do you put the coal fire and why ?

Which side of the boat do you put the chimney and why ? (clue - bridges)

 

Yes you can fit out your own shell, and quite a few folks do, it can often take in excess of 5 years (and many give up and you see 'project boat for sale' - if you are still working it can be longer.

Buy secondhand, use it for a couple of years find out what works for you (and what doesn't) sell it and either buy a 2nd hand boat that meets your requirements or have a boat custom built. Life is too short to fit out your own

[Movin' on]

2 hours ago, Eddie b said:

Wow, right well I will always bow to experience, and I'm assuming you have "boatloads" of that (pardon the pun) but as I thought I have hinted towards I am not about to attempt building the arc after a god like vision, and re- inventing the wheel is not my intention, that's the main reason for seeking advise on this forum. I am looking towards doing something that has been done many times before both professionally and DIY. For information my life experience to date built 2 houses, built my motor home, by built I mean built total with no other professionals.

clearly you have no need of help or advice then.............................

[magictime]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'd say it all depends if you want to go boating or you want to go boatbuilding.

I think TheBiscuits has hit the nail on the head here. Fitting out a boat is a long, expensive job - do you want to spend the next couple of years of weekends and holidays out cruising, or fitting out a new sailaway (which isn't likely to save you any money anyway) - especially when, as has been said, you don't yet have the experience to judge what's going to work best for you in terms of layout etc.?

Get a second hand boat and get out there and enjoy it - life's too short!

[Eddie b]

30 minutes ago, Halsey said:

clearly you have no need of help or advice then.............................

Well it seem that every forum has one or two, I posted my first question simply to ask advise, within minutes I get an answer telling me I'm not the man to plan a build, and not to try re-inventing the wheel. If I did not need help or advise then obviously I would not be on this site and I would not be asking. I thank each and every one that has answered my question and left me with positive feed back ( and before I get another smart remark I can take negative response as well as positive) but I do feel that as a newbie to this forum comments as above are not the best way to get others interested in canal boating.

[Eddie b]

42 minutes ago, magictime said:

I think TheBiscuits has hit the nail on the head here. Fitting out a boat is a long, expensive job - do you want to spend the next couple of years of weekends and holidays out cruising, or fitting out a new sailaway (which isn't likely to save you any money anyway) - especially when, as has been said, you don't yet have the experience to judge what's going to work best for you in terms of layout etc.?

Get a second hand boat and get out there and enjoy it - life's too short!

Yes I think I can agree with you and TheBiscuits  (and I'm sure she who must be obeyed would also agree) one of my main thoughts are having 10mm under me and 6mm around me, and having read a little on steel problems and the good and bad of over plating I'm a little unsure about used.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Eddie b
Incorrect name

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

Yes I think I can agree with you and Biscuit (and I'm sure she who must be obeyed would also agree) one of my main thoughts are having 10mm under me and 6mm around me, and having read a little on steel problems and the good and bad of over plating I'm a little unsure about used.

Eddie, In 2005 we spent a fortune on a brand new lumpy water crusier racer and after a few years of competitive racing cruised to the med and back. We sold it 6 years later. We've now bought a narrow boat and instead of going new or sailaway, we bought a 15 year old boat at 30% of what a new one would have cost us. Not a worry in the world about the state of the hull as it is a colecraft and has had 2 surveys in the last 4 years. I am much happier with the old boat ...no way will I be paying 'new' prices. Narrowboats last a long long time if they are looked after. Dont worry about an 'older' boat if it looks good.

[haggis]

From my reading of the thread, I don't think anyone doubts your ability to fit out a boat yourself. However, before you can start fitting out, you need to plan where things are going to go and until you have actually spent time on a narrow boat  you will not know  what will work for you and your wife.

many folk on here over the years have done some self fitting out and i think it is fair to say that in almost every occasion the time taken and cost has been far longer and higher than anticipated. I think the folk who you think have cast aspersions on your ability were in fact making helpful comments. 

haggis

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

Yes I think I can agree with you and TheBiscuits  (and I'm sure she who must be obeyed would also agree) one of my main thoughts are having 10mm under me and 6mm around me, and having read a little on steel problems and the good and bad of over plating I'm a little unsure about used.

Don't worry about 6mm - it won't leak until it gets down to 0.0mm

[TheBiscuits]

12 minutes ago, Eddie b said:

Yes I think I can agree with you and Biscuit (and I'm sure she who must be obeyed would also agree) one of my main thoughts are having 10mm under me and 6mm around me, and having read a little on steel problems and the good and bad of over plating I'm a little unsure about used.

Very few boats under 15 or 20 years old will have been overplated. It's usually boats from the 1960's, 70's and 80's that need it.

There are hundreds of boats out there that would do you perfectly well for 10 or 20 years if the maintenance has been carried out without ever needing to see a welder.  My narrowboat was built in 1/4 inch steel in the early 1980's and has very little pitting and no overplating.

Conversely, I have seen a 4 year old boat that had horrific galvanic corrosion because it was wired wrongly - the hull (from a respected builder) looked like a colander, with hundreds of 4-5mm pits in the 6mm sides.  Don't worry about this, just get a survey form a reputable surveyor you have chosen.

[Eddie b]

Dr Bob that sounds very re assuring thank you, haggis yes I can understand that people can be trying to help while being quite condescending, and Alan de Enfield lol thank you also. A forum is a great place to gather information, re assurance and fun. Many thank

[system 4-50]

Fitting out your own sailaway is fun, 7yrs on and I have a comfortable and highly functional sailaway that is very ugly internally and very unfinished but usable. I didn't know exactly what I ought to want and I haven't done everything the orthodox way, but it has been great fun. Where things haven't worked I have torn them out and done them again, all part of the fun. It has been a hec of an effort (see what I did there?) but fun fun fun. Forget the RCD, that's AdeE's hobby horse, but you will have to learn the BSS guide backwards.

[Tony Brooks]

13 minutes ago, haggis said:

From my reading of the thread, I don't think anyone doubts your ability to fit out a boat yourself. However, before you can start fitting out, you need to plan where things are going to go and until you have actually spent time on a narrow boat  you will not know  what will work for you and your wife.

many folk on here over the years have done some self fitting out and i think it is fair to say that in almost every occasion the time taken and cost has been far longer and higher than anticipated. I think the folk who you think have cast aspersions on your ability were in fact making helpful comments. 

haggis

100% agree.

I worked on the mechanical side of GRP hire cruiser fit outs and it always seemed to take three times longer than  hoped for. I am perfectly capable of doing a full fit out from just a bare shell but I know the work involved and ho, unless you are on site 6 days a week, 9 hours a day it just drags on and on.

I bought a 10 year old ex hire boat, modified the inside a little and am more than happy with it.

One thing the OP may not have realised is that spirit levels have very little use during boat fit outs unless it is ashore and has been leveld up. No use at all when afloat.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, system 4-50 said:

Fitting out your own sailaway is fun, 7yrs on and I have a comfortable and highly functional sailaway that is very ugly internally and very unfinished but usable. I didn't know exactly what I ought to want and I haven't done everything the orthodox way, but it has been great fun. Where things haven't worked I have torn them out and done them again, all part of the fun. It has been a hec of an effort (see what I did there?) but fun fun fun. Forget the RCD, that's AdeE's hobby horse, but you will have to learn the BSS guide backwards.

Actually its not. Its the law. Not building to the RCD MIGHT (or might not) have insurance implications in the even of a claim and may also have implications in respect of third parties suffering injury whilst on the boat.  It is an offence to sell a non RCD complaint boat within the EU for about 5 years after it enters service but the chances of anyone getting done for it are small but it just might come back to bite you.