First time buyer advice

[Minormatt]

Just now, WotEver said:

A series of invoices to the seller, pertinent to the boat. Old CRT licenses, insurance certificates, engine service bills, blacking and hull work bills, etc etc. 

I wouldn't have thought that will be an issue then from what I have seen

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, Minormatt said:

thanks guys, going off topic is par for the course for most forums - so not worried about that in the slightest!

I thought i had said... sale is via a broker.  Survey cost is overall including pulling it out of the water, a week on hard standing and its not been a hire boat.

Typically how would one prove ownership?

Does the  week out of water include hull coating? I reckon full survey approx £600 and in/out of the water £300. Or less. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by rusty69

[Minormatt]

Hull coating was done in August - prior to bereavement.

Quoted £850 for the survey, £120 each way in/out the water and £50 for a week storage on dry land... so a smidge under £1150 alltogether

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Minormatt said:

Hull coating was done in August - prior to bereavement.

Quoted £850 for the survey, £120 each way in/out the water and £50 for a week storage on dry land... so a smidge under £1150 alltogether

Where abouts is the boat? Not sure why you would need it out for a whole week for a survey unless other work is anticipated. 

[canals are us?]

Arrange for your own surveyor not one the broker recommends! Plenty of recommendations on here.

James

[LadyG]

A Bill of Sale would be a nice thing to get , detailing last transaction. you also must get one for your transaction.

If the boat is at a certain very large marina ask for a very big discount.

If with one of the more selecive brokers, start about 16% but expect to settle for 10%, or even less ,  not sure why the boat is to be out for a week, often its all over in 24 hours, I think.

EDIT are you sure there is not a survey done for the executors? A valuation for probate might have required one.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by LadyG

[cuthound]

Make sure you choose the surveyor. Do NOT use one recommended by the broker. Vested interests and all that.

If you give the general location of the boat, the forum will provide names of surveyors with good reputations.

[Dr Bob]

18 hours ago, Minormatt said:

Hull coating was done in August - prior to bereavement.

Quoted £850 for the survey, £120 each way in/out the water and £50 for a week storage on dry land... so a smidge under £1150 alltogether

My survey last summer was £550. Yours is a bit ott.

[Minormatt]

Thanks guys

Tbh a week is probably the minimum hard standing charge... and whilst I don't think it needs to be out for long it gives me a chance to give it a good going over and familiarisation below the water line too... so not too worried about that bit.

The boat is near Nantwich (Cheshire) if anyone knows a good surveyor in the area? (Or is there a better place to ask on the forum for recommendations who is good/who to avoid?)

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Minormatt said:

Thanks guys

Tbh a week is probably the minimum hard standing charge... and whilst I don't think it needs to be out for long it gives me a chance to give it a good going over and familiarisation below the water line too... so not too worried about that bit.

The boat is near Nantwich (Cheshire) if anyone knows a good surveyor in the area? (Or is there a better place to ask on the forum for recommendations who is good/who to avoid?)

Assuming the boat is something like "Early in the Day Fog"   then most of the decent surveyors in the North West cover that marina.

Going rate is about £10-£12 per foot for a pre-purchase survey, with slipway and hardstanding charges on top.

Jonathan Jackson definitely covers that marina, as I got him in to do my PP survey there.  The brokers are a good professional lot, but they still looked at me funny when I picked a surveyor not on their local list.

Jonathan Jackson: Oh seven 779011316

[Minormatt]

Close enough 

Any thoughts based on picture (and not yet complete) listing?

12 x 58 = £696 so £700ish would be reasonable?

Did you buy a boat via that brokerage then TheBiscuits?

Thanks

[Movin' on]

On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 21:18, Minormatt said:

Hull coating was done in August - prior to bereavement.

Quoted £850 for the survey, £120 each way in/out the water and £50 for a week storage on dry land... so a smidge under £1150 alltogether

That's way over the top for the survey! You can do much better for cash and consider whether you actually want a written report as most surveyors hate writing!

I don't think I've ever had a written report usually just the steel thickness sheet.

What you need is informed opinion you may not need paperwork.............................

As others have said make sure YOU appoint him and he's not the brokers mate

Chris Williams Ovation Boats surveys also covers that area.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Halsey

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, Minormatt said:

Close enough 

Any thoughts based on picture (and not yet complete) listing?

12 x 58 = £696 so £700ish would be reasonable?

Did you buy a boat via that brokerage then TheBiscuits?

Thanks

Can't tell from the incomplete details.  Externally it looks tidy enough from the picture, but you need to be able to see inside to get any idea. You need to prod and poke around on the boat to get the feel of it.

Shame it has those tent things at both ends though 

Yeah £700ish sounds about right depending on level of survey required - a hull condition only survey would be cheaper, but it depends what you want to pay for.

If you can manage it, be present for the survey and follow the surveyor around with your ears open and your mouth (usually) shut - you learn quite a lot that does not go in the written report that way.

Yes, our boat was on brokerage there so we have dealt with them before.  They are a very professional outfit, so feel free to ask them if they have proof of ownership etc. 

Ask why the sterngear needed replacing last year, check to see if the boat has a galvanic isolator and be sure to at least get a hull survey.

I once saw a good quality 4 year old boat on the hardstanding there which had a hull that looked like a colander - 4-5mm deep pits in a 6mm hull.

[Minormatt]

Thanks very much

The boat was moored up there before being put up for brokerage.  Have been on and interior layout works better than I have seen.  Not the highest quality fit out in the world - but certainly above average from what i have seen.  (Only better quality fit out i have seen was £20k more).  Its all very tidy and appears in good order

In the engine bay is a small (2" cube maybe?) Box with 2 chunky earth wires with a label saying "galvanic isolator".  One goes to the hull, not sure about the other.

Stern gear replaced by the yard thats got it for sale - and was replaced before the husband passed away... when they were intending on keeping it for some time.  Believe it was worn due to a misalignment which was corrected at time of replacement.  UJ angles etc all look reasonable to me.

I can't be present for survey... but my dad (who is also an engineer) probably will be.

The tents arn't my cup of tea... but I can see distinct advantages when staying on it a few days a week (fire wood/muddy boot store etc) but would almost certainly be taken down/removed when its pottering along...

Thank you very much for your help and advice!

[Markinaboat]

On 25/02/2018 at 19:40, Minormatt said:

Hi Guys,

I know these sort of questions are probably asked a lot - so maybe chancing my arm a bit.

Im a first time buyer, but have done a few waterway holidays etc.  Primary reason for purchase is live aboard during the week (4/5 nights) for work at a marina with hookup etc instead of forking out (marginally) more money in hotel rooms.  But will also be used by family for occasional weekend jaunts...  New marina located, checked prices and availability and plan to scope it out tomorrow

I am looking at 2007 Liverpool Boats 57ft cruiser at a broker.  4 cyl Izuzu engine, webasto water heating etc.  The fit out all looks to be good quality, and still in good condition etc.  Small amount of water in the bilge - but doesn't seem excessive.  Reportedly 2 owners from new.

Will probably make an offer on the boat subject to survey etc.  Reason for sale is a bereavement.  Would an 85% offer be a reasonable place to start negotiations?  Is it normal practice to ask for a test sail?

The boat has a safety cert until 2021, new stern gear and reblacked in august and some service history.  What else do I need to consider?

As a newbie - I will be getting a full out of the water survey done and have been advised to budget around £1200 - does that seem right?

Thank you very much!

" ... I will be getting a full out of the water survey done and have been advised to budget around £1200 - does that seem right?"

I paid £650 for a slip and hull, engine and inverter/charger survey in November. The prop was bent and was replaced resulting in the boat being 'on the hard' for a week at no costs to myself.

 

[Richard10002]

I paid £10 a foot for a full survey in 2011. I’d guess it’s a bit more now, but no idea how much. I got a written report which I still refer to from time to time.

[Minormatt]

Thanks guys....

Next newbie question - it transpires the RCD document(s) are missing.  Suspect the current owner has it somewhere bit doesn't know where (deceased partner seems to have been the stickler for this stuff)

How much of a problem is it?

[TheBiscuits]

13 minutes ago, Minormatt said:

Thanks guys....

Next newbie question - it transpires the RCD document(s) are missing.  Suspect the current owner has it somewhere bit doesn't know where (deceased partner seems to have been the stickler for this stuff)

How much of a problem is it?

Not much on a ten year old boat.

You need an RCD to sell it within 5 years from new.

Ask them to send it to you if they find it, but don't worry about it.

Edited February 27, 2018 by TheBiscuits

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, Minormatt said:

Thanks guys....

Next newbie question - it transpires the RCD document(s) are missing.  Suspect the current owner has it somewhere bit doesn't know where (deceased partner seems to have been the stickler for this stuff)

How much of a problem is it?

It depends on how important the SELLER thinks the documentation is.

The last boat I bought had all of the RCD paperwork, log books, bills of sale and the VAT paid certificate missing - I negotiated the seller down BY £80,000 on a 12 year old boat

I subsequently managed to obtain a copy of the RCD documents from the manufacturer, and a copy of the VAT certificate by making a 'contribution to the coffee fund' of the local Customs office.

Don't let it put you off - on a boat over 5 years old you don't really need it, but good to have.

[Minormatt]

Thanks all... £80,000

[TheBiscuits]

22 minutes ago, Minormatt said:

Thanks all... £80,000

I think Alan's boat is a little bit bigger than the one you are buying. 

He has one of those gigantic TV aerials on top and hangs bedsheets from it. 

He is also very safety conscious - he has a spare for everything, including an extra hull in case he gets a hole in one of them. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It depends on how important the SELLER thinks the documentation is.

The last boat I bought had all of the RCD paperwork, log books, bills of sale and the VAT paid certificate missing - I negotiated the seller down BY £80,000 on a 12 year old boat

I subsequently managed to obtain a copy of the RCD documents from the manufacturer, and a copy of the VAT certificate by making a 'contribution to the coffee fund' of the local Customs office.

Don't let it put you off - on a boat over 5 years old you don't really need it, but good to have.

But that was not in the UK was it? I suspect trying it in the UK would be more likely to get you arrested than a certificate.

[Dr Bob]

43 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

But that was not in the UK was it? I suspect trying it in the UK would be more likely to get you arrested than a certificate.

Yes, slightly different. You MUST have your bill of sail and VAT paid certificate available when arriving in most ports in Europe apart from the U.K. at the risk of getting it impounded and a VAT bill. ......hence a big discount if paperwork not available. Bit different in the U.K. where no one looks at anything other than the bss. 

[Minormatt]

4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I think Alan's boat is a little bit bigger than the one you are buying. 

He has one of those gigantic TV aerials on top and hangs bedsheets from it. 

He is also very safety conscious - he has a spare for everything, including an extra hull in case he gets a hole in one of them. 

 

Ahh.... one of those ancient things where you are stuck when there is no wind?  Not my cuppa tea!  Diesel runs through my veins!  

Just trying to work out how to ditch the Izuzu 35 engine and fit a 2.5di from a transit... basic 70hp or lancing marine 140hp?

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Minormatt said:

Ahh.... one of those ancient things where you are stuck when there is no wind?  Not my cuppa tea!  Diesel runs through my veins!  

Obviously never 'sailed' - statistics show that sailing boats average 50% of the time with engines running.

We have twin Volvo 2030 diesel engines, and on the last trip we spent the whole holiday (6 weeks) without raising the sail. All the way down the east coast we had Southerly winds, and when we turned to head home (North) we has Northerly winds.

From Hull down to Wells Next The Sea we used £25 of diesel and achieved about 7 knots  - a planning cruiser boat that made the trip the same day (and averaged 25 knots) used over £150

My other boat has twin Ford 6-cylinder engines, they are a bit more thirsty.