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42 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

White = underfloor heating pipe, abandoned

Did it not work? Did it leak? Did it under perform? Did it require too many Ah to drive the pump? None of the above?

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6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Did it not work? Did it leak? Did it under perform? Did it require too many Ah to drive the pump? None of the above?

  • Did it not work? - didn't try it
  • Did it leak? - no
  • Did it under perform? - no
  • Did it require too many Ah to drive the pump? no
  • None of the above? - um?

After I installed my Villager Puffin I found that it heated the entire boat (60ft) well so I abandoned the UFH system before I connected it to a heat source. The Puffin wouldn't have had the ergs per hour to drive it anyway. But, and its a big but, I have nowhere near the regulation volume of ventilation to drive all my appliances flat-out at the same time (but enough to pass the BSS). As I steadily increase the ventilation provided, I am beginning to wonder if my Puffin is enough.  I put the UFH pipework in for fun and I believe it is still intact though a pressure test would be required to confirm that.  It is also a bit minimal and would take days not hours to make any impression.  I reckon its worth about 2 - 3 milli-ecofanlets.

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46 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I reckon its worth about 2 - 3 milli-ecofanlets.

What an excellent unit of measurement you have quoted sir. 

Where are all the pedants to say that it’s not dimensionally accurate...

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50 minutes ago, WotEver said:

What an excellent unit of measurement you have quoted sir. 

Where are all the pedants to say that it’s not dimensionally accurate...

They are still studying the ergs per hour...

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8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

They are still studying the ergs per hour...

It's not eggs per hour, its eggs per day......-the duck has just told me.

  • Haha 1

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6 hours ago, system 4-50 said:
  • Did it not work? - didn't try it
  • Did it leak? - no
  • Did it under perform? - no
  • Did it require too many Ah to drive the pump? no
  • None of the above? - um?

After I installed my Villager Puffin I found that it heated the entire boat (60ft) well so I abandoned the UFH system before I connected it to a heat source. The Puffin wouldn't have had the ergs per hour to drive it anyway. But, and its a big but, I have nowhere near the regulation volume of ventilation to drive all my appliances flat-out at the same time (but enough to pass the BSS). As I steadily increase the ventilation provided, I am beginning to wonder if my Puffin is enough.  I put the UFH pipework in for fun and I believe it is still intact though a pressure test would be required to confirm that.  It is also a bit minimal and would take days not hours to make any impression.  I reckon its worth about 2 - 3 milli-ecofanlets.

Unless you are going to pour a concrete floor around those ufh pipes you will need some of the metal emitter plates used for domestic ufh installations with suspended timber floors. The pipes alone simply will not emit enough heat.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Unless you are going to pour a concrete floor around those ufh pipes you will need some of the metal emitter plates used for domestic ufh installations with suspended timber floors. The pipes alone simply will not emit enough heat.

You only need a poured concrete floor if the boat is leaking ...

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If you have the room I would go for 50mm celotex on sides above and below gunwales and roof as most heat is lost through the roof as heat rises.

Neil

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@Neal Smith Ok thanks, yeah. The current weather has a....sobering... effect on one's insulation choices. Mildly terrifying to a newbie. Woke up on sunday to 0 degrees inside the boat. No doubt it's -5 right now. (I'm elsewhere).

 

@system 4-50 Ha, ok, some debate about the drainage channel, then. 

@Tam & Di Yeah, thanks, I'm gonna do some major flake sweepage. 

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13 hours ago, Neil Smith said:

If you have the room I would go for 50mm celotex on sides above and below gunwales and roof as most heat is lost through the roof as heat rises.

Neil

It obviously depends on the levels on insulation, but on a lot of boats I actually think more heat is lost through the floor and the sides (below gunwales) through heat transfer to the water.

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16 hours ago, klgilfillan said:

@system 4-50 Ha, ok, some debate about the drainage channel, then

Nope. The drainage channel was/is a great idea. The underfloor heating pipes not so much. 

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5 hours ago, blackrose said:

It obviously depends on the levels on insulation, but on a lot of boats I actually think more heat is lost through the floor and the sides (below gunwales) through heat transfer to the water.

You do loose heat through the floor true, I only had room for 25mm celotex under my floor but keeps my feet a bit warmer than none I'm sure.

Neil

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Hi all, 

If anyone on this thread has the time to respond to a couple more questions about insulation....
 
To install 25mm celotex under the floor boards, I'm thinking to cut the celotex to fit between the floor supports, then temporarily lay some loose battens on top of the ballast as a raised surface to lay a strip of celotex on. Then apply the glue to the celotex, then lay a floor board on top. So the celotex would be a sort of 'tile' on the underside of each floorboard. And the floorboards would have a border with no celotex, which will rest on the steel floor supports.
Floor supports themselves will just have floorboards resting on them with no insulation. Is this ok?
 
Also, I have two steel horizontal 'runners' on the hull walls under the gunwale (don't know what term for these) - like lengths of square steel tubing with the bottom cut out. Have inserted pic.
I would fit my celotex underneath these. But should I put shallow 12mm strips of celotex on the runners themselves so that I don't have bare steel against my lining? Should all steel surfaces be covered with some form of insulation? 

IMG_20180304_174403816.jpg

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On my floor i put the celotex on top of the brick ballast that left a small air gap between floor boards and celotex that is meant to aid insulation, well in houses anyway. On the hill sides cut celotex  to fit tightly between steel channels and tape joints with silver celotex tape, before you fix the  battens to the steel channels you must have a barrier to stop damp transfer i used silicone.

Neil

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Hi Neil, thanks very much for replying. Ok, so based on what you did, there is no need to attach celotex to floorboards. Just set the celotex sheets down on top of the ballast. Ok, that's a lot simpler. 

And on the steel channels on the hull sides...ok, I hadn't actually grasped that I needed to attach a horizontal batten down the length of the channels. So, you do that rather than loads of vertical battens, I'm guessing.  I assume you screw it onto the steel channel? (And, as you say, put silicone between the steel and the horizontal batten). When I removed the existing lining, there was no horizontal batten attached to the channel.

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5 hours ago, klgilfillan said:

Oh, I see a bunch of people haven't used screws at all for battens, just stixall/sikaflex/marineflex. 

 

5 hours ago, klgilfillan said:

Hi Neil, thanks very much for replying. Ok, so based on what you did, there is no need to attach celotex to floorboards. Just set the celotex sheets down on top of the ballast. Ok, that's a lot simpler. 

And on the steel channels on the hull sides...ok, I hadn't actually grasped that I needed to attach a horizontal batten down the length of the channels. So, you do that rather than loads of vertical battens, I'm guessing.  I assume you screw it onto the steel channel? (And, as you say, put silicone between the steel and the horizontal batten). When I removed the existing lining, there was no horizontal batten attached to the channel.

No only vertical battens at 18" or 24" centres depending on ply thickness and I screwed mine as I could not trust adhesive as you only have a couple of small areas for contact, 

Neil

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If you don't insulate the steel angles along the wall you WILL get condensation. If you are going to put battens on the face of the angles then why not put a sheet of celotex over the angles, flush with the face of the battens?

In the Narrow Boat Builders Book Graham Booth fitted a couple of layers of 2mm polystyrene laminate over the hull ribs - the stuff you can get from decorating shops to use under wallpaper.

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18 hours ago, David Mack said:

If you don't insulate the steel angles along the wall you WILL get condensation. If you are going to put battens on the face of the angles then why not put a sheet of celotex over the angles, flush with the face of the battens?

In the Narrow Boat Builders Book Graham Booth fitted a couple of layers of 2mm polystyrene laminate over the hull ribs - the stuff you can get from decorating shops to use under wallpaper.

I stuck a thin strip of insulation on the ribs but not on the point of contact with the battens only silicone so I am not worried about them few square inches.

Neil

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