Celebrity Five go Barging

[Bee]

To the best of my knowledge that lock flight is a 'One off' as regards operation, don't know if it was a bit dramatized for the telly but most French locks are OK just using one bow line and controlling the boat by driving it ahead against the line with the rudder hard over. Some locks need two lines because of different designs but not many, big commercial locks are OK but care is required as you are probably sitting behind something very big with a metre dia. propeller pushing it ahead to keep it in place. You are effectively sitting right under the stern of a small coaster.I would think the hire people would pre warn people of that flight but if you haven't had much experience of how to control a heavy boat in a surge of water with a couple of ropes then bad things can happen, We are probably quite experienced but from time to time ropes still jam, slip, knot, if it can go wrong it will every so often.

[Momac]

I guess the lock operation  may have been  normal procedure in France. 

The lock keeper clearly did not consider the vulnerability of narrowboat. Although the narrowboat would be an unusual type of boat the lock keeper may well have seen it before as it was a hire boat. So I wonder  the film crew asked to lock keeper top let it rip to add drama .......... and it became a bit too dramatic.

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

I am trying to find a picture of our friends going through what I think is the same lock flight and they let the water in in the same fashion so I don't think it was staged for tv.

ETA: not the one I was looking for bug similar set up.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Naughty Cal

[Athy]

57 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Why the heck would you hire a bloomin narrowboat in that location? 

Because they were available - operated by a branch of Napton Narrowboats, an establshed and respected company.

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

The lock keeper clearly did not consider the vulnerability of narrowboat. Although the narrowboat would be an unusual type of boat the lock keeper may well have seen it before as it was a hire boat.

 

I would suggest that, since the narrowboat was one of a fleet operating in that area, the lock keepers would be very accustomed to them as they regularly pass through that flight.

[mrsmelly]

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

Because they were available - operated by a branch of Napton Narrowboats, an establshed and respected company.

I would suggest that, since the narrowboat was one of a fleet operating in that area, the lock keepers would be very accustomed to them as they regularly pass through that flight.

Yes I understand who you hired from but why something as uncomy and unsuited to such a location when real boats are for hire? Was it just the familiarity of the boat type?

[Athy]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes I understand who you hired from but why something as uncomy and unsuited to such a location when real boats are for hire? Was it just the familiarity of the boat type?

Exactly that, I think. We have since hired pénichettes three times on the French canals and find them more suitable.

What does "uncomy" mean? It's a rather pleasing word.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Athy said:

Exactly that, I think. We have since hired pénichettes three times on the French canals and find them more suitable.

What does "uncomy" mean? It's a rather pleasing word.

 Its a working class northern word for Uncomfortable........but I cannot spell Uncomfortable so I left the  " F " out  

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, blackrose said:

Taking the piss is all very well, but I don't think any of them realised quite how dangerous it was. If more water had entered the bow the boat could have sunk with him inside, or he could have easily been knocked off the bow by that impact. Then nobody would have been laughing.

 

They wern't laughing at first as (at least in the edit) they thought is was man 'overboard'.

[JamesFrance]

This is what they tried to use there instead of the lock flight but it didn't work so was abandoned.   It was called the Foncerannes water slope.

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by JamesFrance
added info

[Tim Lewis]

17 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

This is what they tried to use there instead of the lock flight but it didn't work so was abandoned.   It was called the Foncerannes water slope.

 

My picture from 1988

 

[john6767]

You can always try it the exciting way here if you want too

 

[Athy]

53 minutes ago, JamesFrance said:

This is what they tried to use there instead of the lock flight but it didn't work so was abandoned.   It was called the Foncerannes water slope.

 

There's another one, looking even more like a train, along the Canal de Garonne at Montech, and regrettably that one's out of use at the moment too, though it is by-passed by several normal locks and not by such a dramatic staircase. I would have loved to use them.

[Nightwatch]

My own humble thoughts. Apart from Admiral Conti, they were all silly adults. We all skylark about but there's a time and place. They never listened to instruction, if in fact they recieved any, had no respect for the hire boats and their operation. Just a frustratingly silly programme. 

Having said that, why on earth the production team intervene at the point of potential disaster goodness knows. If they weren't aware of the potential then there should have been someone there who did. The French lock keepers were irresponsible in their actions. I'm sure the designer of that staircase lock system didn't intend them to be used in that matter.  The French equivalent of HSE should be informed of this malpractice and stop it reacurring. Someone should have seen that Mr Christie was having difficulties with the securing of the narrowboat and closed all the paddles. He panicked and disappeared 'into' the boat. Not the best place to be if more water had entered the cabin. 

As I have said, a very frustrating programme to watch. Oh! I watched it because I have an interest in cruising the French waterways and incidentally loved the scenery and the canals and rivers. I will not look forward to doing that staircase if I ever get there.

stupid stupid stupid. In my view.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Nightwatch

[Peter X]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

They wern't laughing at first as (at least in the edit) they thought is was man 'overboard'.

At that point I was thinking that Dairmuid Gavin, rather than go up along the top of the lock to look for Tony Christie, would have been wiser to board and hurry through the inside while Tom Conti stayed at the helm, so he could check whether the missing man was inside the boat and also be in a better position to help if he was in the water.

[Chas78]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

Yes, so the flow was not the real issue. As long as boats are properly secured they will be fine.

Yes, it should have been wrapped around the bow cleat.

They seemed to think it was more traditional?

I personally think that losing control of a boat in a big set of locks like that is fairly dramatic. 

I don't think it would have been aired if it were a real danger situation do you !!

 

[Pluto]

From historical continental documents about the Canal du Midi I have translated, it does seem to have been their standard way of operating riser locks. Their riser locks may well have been built for this system, with the central locks having a lesser fall by the depth of water required for navigation compared to the outer two locks, as this would ensure that water was not wasted. It probably keeps the lock chambers free from debris, and may thus help to maintain a good gate seal. In Germany, tyres are prohibited for use as fenders as they can sink in locks and end up caught on the gate seal. I keep meaning to measure the falls on Bingley to see if they are all the same, which would suggest that we had a different method of operating riser locks compared to the French.

[Tam & Di]

3 hours ago, Chas78 said:

I don't think it would have been aired if it were a real danger situation do you !!

 

I'm not sure that the casual onlooker appreciated the danger - they just as likely thought it was funny. Firstly was the ineptitude of the 5 celebrities, though many first-time hirers might be equally so. This meant that as already mentioned they had no idea at all of how to use lines to keep the boat safe - taking a line from the boat around a lockside bollard and hanging onto the other end is never going to be adequate, and a wide beam on the nearby R. Baïse was a write-off when the crew lost grip of their line last year and it surged forward into the top gates. They were then too close to the upstream cill, allowing the water to cascade over into the front well and into the cabin. But even worse they then just slewed over and were caught under the flared bow of the Le Boat cruiser alongside which had their narrow boat heeled over to the point I thought water would be coming in via the drains in the front well (assuming it had those).

My oft-given advice that narrow boats are not ideal on French waterways was only too well confirmed, even on this relatively small waterway which is generally regard as safe.

I think the three guys were lucky to get away with only breaking windows on both the cruiser and then the narrow boat they swapped it for. I can't remember if it was Diarmuid or Tom Conti, but he said they would like to return with their family, but with the cruiser they originally had rather than the narrowv boat.

 

Tam

[Guest]

One of the things I love about France is a general casual attitude to health and safety. Often evidenced by a lack of fencing alongside railway lines even near main roads, a lack of decent fencing on the ramparts of ancient buildings and ungarded wiers on rivers.

The attitude seems to be you need to take some personal responsibility for your own safety, something we could learn from in the UK. I suspect the operation of that lock is a manifestation of that hence they should have been better prepared and done some pre holiday research.

Edited February 24, 2018 by MJG

[ditchcrawler]

21 hours ago, blackrose said:

Taking the piss is all very well, but I don't think any of them realised quite how dangerous it was. If more water had entered the bow the boat could have sunk with him inside, or he could have easily been knocked off the bow by that impact. Then nobody would have been laughing.

 

I think they realised, just look at the faces when they think Tony has gone overboard

 

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

My own humble thoughts. Apart from Admiral Conti, they were all silly adults. We all skylark about but there's a time and place. They never listened to instruction, if in fact they recieved any, had no respect for the hire boats and their operation. Just a frustratingly silly programme. 

Having said that, why on earth the production team intervene at the point of potential disaster goodness knows. If they weren't aware of the potential then there should have been someone there who did. The French lock keepers were irresponsible in their actions. I'm sure the designer of that staircase lock system didn't intend them to be used in that matter.  The French equivalent of HSE should be informed of this malpractice and stop it reacurring. Someone should have seen that Mr Christie was having difficulties with the securing of the narrowboat and closed all the paddles. He panicked and disappeared 'into' the boat. Not the best place to be if more water had entered the cabin. 

As I have said, a very frustrating programme to watch. Oh! I watched it because I have an interest in cruising the French waterways and incidentally loved the scenery and the canals and rivers. I will not look forward to doing that staircase if I ever get there.

stupid stupid stupid. In my view.

If you think about it its the safest way to operate a stair case with gate paddles, the only time there is a risk of flooding a boat with the gate paddles is the top lock, non of the rest. I have been up that flight and its not a problem, the water just flows over the cill ahead, It gushes in through the gate paddles.

[WotEver]

28 minutes ago, MJG said:

One of the things I love about France is a general casual attitude to health and safety. Often evidenced by a lack of fencing alongside railway lines even near main roads, a lack of decent fencing on the ramparts of ancient buildings and ungarded wiers on rivers.

The attitude seems to be you need to take some personal responsibility for your own safety, something we could learn from in the UK. I suspect the operation of that lock is a manifestation of that hence they should have been better prepared and done some pre holiday research.

I feel the same way about Spain. It’s really refreshing not to be nannied. 

[Tam & Di]

40 minutes ago, MJG said:

The attitude seems to be you need to take some personal responsibility for your own safety, something we could learn from in the UK. I suspect the operation of that lock is a manifestation of that hence they should have been better prepared and done some pre holiday research.

We've had diferrencies of opinion in the past, but in this respect I could not agree more whole heartedly. I really do find the present blame culture appalling - yes, providers of facilities should be sure to avoid obvious dangers, but beyond that it is everyone must be resposible for their own safety. OK, boating is a potentially dangerous activity, in France as in the UK, BUT it is up to each individual to make their own choice and make their own decision as to whether to take the accepted risk or not, and if things do go belly up, that was their own decision. Otherwise we'd all need some risk advisor to walk hand in hand with us all the time.

[Athy]

2 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

 a wide beam on the nearby R. Baïse was a write-off when the crew lost grip of their line last year and it surged forward into the top gates.

 

Tam

Was this at the very top lock at Valence? It is very deep (about 30 feet) and fierce, albeit placid when you come back down it. Mrs. Athy came close to crashing into the top gates (I was on the bank operating the gear) but luckily she was able to put enough reverse on to avoid any impact. The force of the incoming water had plucked the rope from her hands.

[Nightwatch]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you think about it its the safest way to operate a stair case with gate paddles, the only time there is a risk of flooding a boat with the gate paddles is the top lock, non of the rest. I have been up that flight and its not a problem, the water just flows over the cill ahead, It gushes in through the gate paddles.

Even though I haven't been to these locks I think I agree with the points of potential risk. But surely here has to be a bit of responsibility from the lock operators. Novice boaters, not having a clue what they're doing has risks.

 

Regarding nanny state. I agree. We do have to take personal responsibility. But experience in some situations has to come to the fore.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Even though I haven't been to these locks I think I agree with the points of potential risk. But surely here has to be a bit of responsibility from the lock operators. Novice boaters, not having a clue what they're doing has risks.

 

Regarding nanny state. I agree. We do have to take personal responsibility. But experience in some situations has to come to the fore.

I suspect if they sink you all you will get is a Gallic shrug and they will go for lunch.......