Ready to buy any advice please

[PMcC]

Hi everyone, I've sold my house and in 8 weeks will be ready to buy a 57' cruiser narrowboat boat at around £60.000 max. I've been considering a spillway whoops sailaway:) with a pump out loo and a cassette for emergencies as I will be a constant cruiser. 

Can anyone tell me if waiting for the Crick or Brunston shows is the thing to do to get a good deal , or are they only completed boats at these venues. I'm considering a spillway but am nervous about electrics, the rest is no problem for me. Maybe there is someone that only installs the electric and tech side side, so I can do the rest. I'm thinking about a hull prepared with Polyrea finish before being blacked, does anyone have any experience. I really want a boat that will last and not corrode underneath to last me a long time. So let's say a total budget of around  £ 85,000. 

I've been looking at non British boats but not so keen on their design.

Any help advice will be very appreciated.

Phill

Edited February 23, 2018 by PMcC

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, PMcC said:

Hi everyone, I've sold my house and in 8 weeks will be ready to buy a 57' cruiser narrowboat boat at around £60.000 max. I've been considering a spillway with a pump out loo and a cassette for emergencies as I will be a constant cruiser. 

What is a 'spillway' ?

It sounds as if you are proposing to do a self fit-out, just consider that you may have many months waiting for your hull to be built - where will you live during that time, and then consider where you will fit out the boat and (maybe) need to live elsewhere.

 

I really would suggest that you consider a youngish 2nd hand boat that has had all the 'bugs ironed out', you will not get a 'premium' new boat for £60k but you will get an exceptionally good 2nd hand one.

 

All boats will corrode if you do not look after them and (generally) it cost more to maintain a boat (both financially and in time) than it does a house.

[Boat&Bikes]

Spillway. Sailaway? Anyway, best advice I'd give is read lots of the threads on here. Ask as many questions as you can think of, don't worry if they seem silly. No one knows everything, despite what some here would like you to believe. Have a good around the brokers. Your budget will buy you a good, fairly newish used boat. Enjoy looking its fun.

Ian.

[PMcC]

16 minutes ago, ianali said:

Spillway. Sailaway? Anyway, best advice I'd give is read lots of the threads on here. Ask as many questions as you can think of, don't worry if they seem silly. No one knows everything, despite what some here would like you to believe. Have a good around the brokers. Your budget will buy you a good, fairly newish used boat. Enjoy looking its fun.

Ian.

Thanks Ian

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What is a 'spillway' ?

It sounds as if you are proposing to do a self fit-out, just consider that you may have many months waiting for your hull to be built - where will you live during that time, and then consider where you will fit out the boat and (maybe) need to live elsewhere.

 

I really would suggest that you consider a youngish 2nd hand boat that has had all the 'bugs ironed out', you will not get a 'premium' new boat for £60k but you will get an exceptionally good 2nd hand one.

 

All boats will corrode if you do not look after them and (generally) it cost more to maintain a boat (both financially and in time) than it does a house.

Spillaway edited (bloody auto correct) Thanks I think you have confirmed what I was coming around to.

 

[Movin' on]

IMHO having just bought our 10th narrowboat (over 30 years) you don't need to spend £85k - there are good boats about for around £60k - look for a well travelled fully shaken down 10-15 year old well maintained boat built by a good known builder and preferably a with professional fit out and if DIY look for things like the electrics being done by known sub contractors with well known products.

Your challenge will be finding and securing the right boat as the spring rush sets in so don't delay. 

My advice is therefore don't go for new - go to Crick by all means but not to buy a boat.

It will probably be quite a stressful time, make sure you enjoy it and soak up all the info available - you are joining a great club and starting out on a great way of life.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Halsey

[PMcC]

5 minutes ago, Halsey said:

IMHO having just bought our 10th narrowboat (over 30 years) you don't need to spend £85k - there are good boats about for around £60k - look for a well travelled fully shaken down 10-15 year old well maintained boat built by a good known builder and preferably a with professional fit out and if DIY look for things like the electrics being done by known sub contractors with well known products.

Your challenge will be finding and securing the right boat as the spring rush sets in so don't delay. 

My advice is therefore don't go for new - go to Crick by all means but not to buy a boat.

It will probably be quite a stressful time, make sure you enjoy it and soak up all the info available - you are joining a great club and starting out on a great way of life.

Thanks , I'm just so nervous about an older boat, I've seen a lot of disaster stories, even after survey  Do you know if there are used boats at Crick ?

[Movin' on]

1 minute ago, PMcC said:

Thanks , I'm just so nervous about an older boat, I've seen a lot of disaster stories, even after survey  Do you know if there are used boats at Crick ?

I don't think there are used boats at Crick as such but clearly lots of brokers nearby.

Food for thought - the only "disaster" we have had in 30 years of boating with our own boats was with our only new boat - never again! 

 

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, Halsey said:

I don't think there are used boats at Crick as such but clearly lots of brokers nearby.

Food for thought - the only "disaster" we have had in 30 years of boating with our own boats was with our only new boat - never again! 

 

Unless it has changed very recently, the respected brokers ABNB are right beside the marina and have plenty of second-hand boats for sale, mostly good quality ones.

[dmr]

You say "I" rather than "we" so will you be living on this boat alone? Unless you have friends and family who plan to visit Very often there is no advantage at all in a cruiser, a trad makes much more sense, or if you do plan to have visitors a semi-trad might be a good compromise. Cruiser sterns are really aimed at the hire market were everybody wants to stand together and take a turn at steering.

...............Dave

[Tumshie]

1 hour ago, PMcC said:

I'm thinking about a hull prepared with Polyrea finish before being blacked, does anyone have any experience.

This sounds interesting, does any one have any experience of polyurea spray coatings - I haven't heard of this before, though that doesn't mean much really.

A quick search of the forum only brings up two posts about it. And those posts may have been a little promotional.

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Tumshie

[rgreg]

1 hour ago, Halsey said:

IMHO having just bought our 10th narrowboat (over 30 years) you don't need to spend £85k - there are good boats about for around £60k - look for a well travelled fully shaken down 10-15 year old well maintained boat built by a good known builder and preferably a with professional fit out and if DIY look for things like the electrics being done by known sub contractors with well known products.

Your challenge will be finding and securing the right boat as the spring rush sets in so don't delay. 

My advice is therefore don't go for new - go to Crick by all means but not to buy a boat.

It will probably be quite a stressful time, make sure you enjoy it and soak up all the info available - you are joining a great club and starting out on a great way of life.

Crikey, 10 boats in 30 years! Were you gradually upgrading, couldn't find the right one, or just fancied a regular change? I'm on my second in 15 years and maybe looking for number 3 in the next 5 years.

Edited February 23, 2018 by rgreg

[PMcC]

33 minutes ago, dmr said:

You say "I" rather than "we" so will you be living on this boat alone? Unless you have friends and family who plan to visit Very often there is no advantage at all in a cruiser, a trad makes much more sense, or if you do plan to have visitors a semi-trad might be a good compromise. Cruiser sterns are really aimed at the hire market were everybody wants to stand together and take a turn at steering.

...............Dave

That's interesting Dave, I will be alone although my kids and grandchildren will be occasional visitors, My main problem with a trad or semi trad would be engine access as I'm 68 but unfortunately will get older  . I really don't like the idea of a trad with the engine inside though, must get a bit smelly I imagine

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, PMcC said:

 . I really don't like the idea of a trad with the engine inside though, must get a bit smelly I imagine

Not necessarily, no. Our engine room has doors front and back, and hatches at both sides, so it's insulated when at rest and ventilated when in motion. Come to think of it, we often do not shut the doors, and we don't notice any oil or diesel aroma outside the confines of the engine room - no more than, say. we'd notice cooking smells beyond the galley and saloon.

[PMcC]

8 minutes ago, Athy said:

Not necessarily, no. Our engine room has doors front and back, and hatches at both sides, so it's insulated when at rest and ventilated when in motion. Come to think of it, we often do not shut the doors, and we don't notice any oil or diesel aroma outside the confines of the engine room - no more than, say. we'd notice cooking smells beyond the galley and saloon.

Thanks that's interesting , what a great forum this is 5 note to myself , make a donation)

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, PMcC said:

Thanks that's interesting , what a great forum this is 5 note to myself , make a donation)

Thanks, i take Pay Pal.

Oh I see, you mean to the Forum? Yes, that would be very welcome, thank you.

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Crikey, 10 boats in 30 years! Were you gradually upgrading, couldn't find the right one, or just fancied a regular change? I'm on my second in 15 years and maybe looking for number 3 in the next 5 years.

I'm currently on my 18th in 30 years.

Buy 'well' and sell 18 months later 'even better'. - I often have several 'on the go at the same time'

A carrier bag of notes is a big incentive to a seller, pay today and take away today - no brokers fees, no hanging about waiting for surveyors and then getting beaten-up on the already agreed price.

Ignoring mooring, insurance & licence fees I have made a profit on every one bar two.

[rgreg]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm currently on my 18th in 30 years.

Buy 'well' and sell 18 months later 'even better'. - I often have several 'on the go at the same time'

A carrier bag of notes is a big incentive to a seller, pay today and take away today - no brokers fees, no hanging about waiting for surveyors and then getting beaten-up on the already agreed price.

Ignoring mooring, insurance & licence fees I have made a profit on every one bar two.

That's pretty good going. Another boater and I were discussing earlier today the decision making process of if and when to sell a boat that you are happy with.

[Mac of Cygnet]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

You say "I" rather than "we" so will you be living on this boat alone? Unless you have friends and family who plan to visit Very often there is no advantage at all in a cruiser, a trad makes much more sense, or if you do plan to have visitors a semi-trad might be a good compromise. Cruiser sterns are really aimed at the hire market were everybody wants to stand together and take a turn at steering.

...............Dave

Dogmatic statements about cruiser vs. trad vs. semi-trad are very unhelpful to someone who has not made their mind up. Personally, I much prefer a cruiser stern and I am singlehanding almost all the time.  I prefer the freedom to move around and it's much easier to ger on and off a cruiser stern. Your last sentence is particularly untrue and biased. 

[system 4-50]

If

• you are retired or not working (68)
• you are able to diy (your interest in engine accessibility)
• you lack of interest in new fully fitted (budget size)
• you have interest in long-term hull survivability (Polyrea)

then I would suggest buying a new "full" sailaway from Colecraft with the following already installed

• ballast
• flooring
• battening
• sprayfoam throughout
• windows
• tanks, water & waste
• new Beta engine & drive gear
• epoxy 2 pack on the hull

This would be well within your budget and have a long life, suitably maintained. You could fit it out at your leisure whilst living on it, camping at first. I did something similar but without living on it full-time.

[OldGoat]

50 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

If

• you are retired or not working (68)
• you are able to diy (your interest in engine accessibility)
• you lack of interest in new fully fitted (budget size)
• you have interest in long-term hull survivability (Polyrea)

then I would suggest buying a new "full" sailaway from Colecraft with the following already installed

• ballast
• flooring
• battening
• sprayfoam throughout
• windows
• tanks, water & waste
• new Beta engine & drive gear
• epoxy 2 pack on the hull

This would be well within your budget and have a long life, suitably maintained. You could fit it out at your leisure whilst living on it, camping at first. I did something similar but without living on it full-time.

Brilliant - much more succinct than I was about to say.

A further suggestion is that you add -

• Ducts in the floor for water and heating pipes
• timbers under the gunnels to fox gas pipes and some electrical feeds
• Ducts in the ceiling on both sides for cables for lighting, aerial cables, loudspeaker feeds w.h.y
• Traps in the floor for inspection etc
• Holes in the roof for ventillators

Have most of that done before the sprayfoam, so you don't have to fiddle with cutting it at afterwards.

The above approach will keep cables and pipes tidy and sooo much easier to lay - especially as you said you were uneasy about electrics. FWIW on my boat I made the ceiling duct covers part of the style rather than disguising them. 

[dmr]

 

2 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

Dogmatic statements about cruiser vs. trad vs. semi-trad are very unhelpful to someone who has not made their mind up. Personally, I much prefer a cruiser stern and I am singlehanding almost all the time.  I prefer the freedom to move around and it's much easier to ger on and off a cruiser stern. Your last sentence is particularly untrue and biased. 

Well, I am really not going to debate a post like that, and ultimately boat layout can be a matter of personal preference rather than logic, but I really am not a dogmatic person. My original post used words like "often" and "compromise" so surely that is a considered rather than a dogmatic post?. However I really fail to see how stepping on and off a cruiser can be easier than a trad where you have a cabin for a steadying hand.

Have spent the last week putting in long cruising days on my trad, nicely protected from the cold wind.

..............Dave

[dmr]

3 hours ago, PMcC said:

That's interesting Dave, I will be alone although my kids and grandchildren will be occasional visitors, My main problem with a trad or semi trad would be engine access as I'm 68 but unfortunately will get older  . I really don't like the idea of a trad with the engine inside though, must get a bit smelly I imagine

I understand that as its a very common view. After living on a Trad trad with an internal room for almost ten years I would not contemplate anything else;  the access is excellent and the engine keeps the boat warm in winter and is a great place for drying the washing etc. We have a Beta JD3 which is very clean (we can dry washing on top of the engine) and makes no smell, but some vintage engines can also be fairly clean though might like a wipe down every few days. Cruisers often have cold wet and cramped engine "rooms", not a nice place to be, especially in winter.

.................Dave

[Movin' on]

3 hours ago, rgreg said:

Crikey, 10 boats in 30 years! Were you gradually upgrading, couldn't find the right one, or just fancied a regular change? I'm on my second in 15 years and maybe looking for number 3 in the next 5 years.

Gradually upgrading and I like change, part of my enjoyment of this "hobby" is to work on boats and get the best out of them for posterity - ask anyone who has bought from me I have had long standing connections to all but two of my past boats and still have to 4 of them - last year 3 were together at exactly the same time at Hillmorton!

Over time we have had new, ex working, ex hire, tugs, trads, cruisers 31ft to 62 ft, engine rooms with DM2, D3, P3 & 2LWs - also 2 river boats a freeman 23 and a 30ft Dutch steel cruiser.

[PMcC]

39 minutes ago, dmr said:

I understand that as its a very common view. After living on a Trad trad with an internal room for almost ten years I would not contemplate anything else;  the access is excellent and the engine keeps the boat warm in winter and is a great place for drying the washing etc. We have a Beta JD3 which is very clean (we can dry washing on top of the engine) and makes no smell, but some vintage engines can also be fairly clean though might like a wipe down every few days. Cruisers often have cold wet and cramped engine "rooms", not a nice place to be, especially in winter.

.................Dave

It's unfortunate that for the moment I live in France, all these comments are making me think I need to look at trad and semi trad boats. I'm coming over next week to do more research.

Thanks Dave

[dmr]

Just now, PMcC said:

It's unfortunate that for the moment I live in France, all these comments are making me think I need to look at trad and semi trad boats. I'm coming over next week to do more research.

Thanks Dave

Boaters are mostly a friendly bunch and love to talk about their boats and life. You can certainly visit various brokers, but also get yourself down to some of the popular canal locations and talk to the people who actually live on boats. You will get many conflicting ideas so ultimately you should make your own decision, though a trad trad with a proper engine room and a pump out bog is obviously the only way to go .

.............Dave