How is your side hatch secured?

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I have pictures ... 

 

Of Middlewich.  It's quite nice by the tip, but a bit noisy at Big Lock ...

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

No, PLEEAAASE, i'm about to turn in and fancy a restful sleep!

What do you have against Cheshire

 

[Froggy]

* desperately reaches for the logout button, just in case!.....

8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Of Middlewich.  It's quite nice by the tip, but a bit noisy at Big Lock ...

What do you have against Cheshire

 

You're being very naughty and have post-edited your post, i now wish i'd taken a screenshot as proof! 

Btw, i come from Cheshire, so have nothing but praise!

Edited February 22, 2018 by Froggy

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Getting back on topic again. The OP's pictures show a welded steel lip around the wood panel on each door at least where  they meet. Many boats don't have this, but it could be used to make a good secure fixing. Just take away some wood each side and drill a hole through the lip and a sliding lock bolt could be fitted with the bolt going through the steel lips. If the lip carries round on the top and bottom edges of the doors, then slide bolts could be fitted top and bottom passing through the lips in to the door frame. Either way would give you a very secure fixing in to steel and without welding, or exposed bolt heads on the outside.

Generally insurance companies want evidence of damage and that someone had to make an effort to break in before honouring a claim. Smashed glass, crowbar marks, splintered wood, or twisted metal will do that. You can't make a boat 100% secure, but at least you can get some money back if the worst happens, or make your boat slightly harder to break in than the one moored next to it.

If two doors are joined together to keep closed, then the geometry means they can be more easily moved apart and opened than if the doors are secured to the frame. Most side hatches have one door with a lip that closes over the other door, meaning that only the door with the lip needs securing to the frame to prevent either being opened. Can't tell if yours are like this.

Jen

Edited February 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies
spelllling

[CV32]

8 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by flipover lids?

an example > 

[Froggy]

7 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Getting back on topic again. The OP's pictures show a welded steel lip around the wood panel on each door at least where  they meet. Many boats don't have this, but it could be used to make a good secure fixing. Just take away some wood each side and drill a hole through the lip and a sliding lock bolt could be fitted with the bolt going through the steel lips. If the lip carries round on the top and bottom edges of the doors, then slide bolts could be fitted top and bottom passing through the lips in to the door frame. Either way would give you a very secure fixing in to steel and without welding, or exposed bolt heads on the outside.

Generally insurance companies want evidence of damage and that someone had to make an effort to break in before honouring a claim. Smashed glass, crowbar marks, splintered wood, or twisted metal will do that. You can't make a boat 100% secure, but at least you can get some money back if the worst happens, or make your boat slightly harder to break in than the one moored next to it.

If two doors are joined together to keep closed, then the geometry means they can be more easily moved apart and opened than if the doors are secured to the frame. Most side hatches have one door with a lip that closes over the other door, meaning that only the door with the lip needs securing to the frame to prevent either being opened. Can't tell if yours are like this.

Jen

Thanks Jen, these suggestions are well worth looking into. I'm not at the boat atm but from memory the steel frame extends all around the wood panel. The overlapping lip is only on the left door. This does suggest that the original idea was to secure the door something along the lines of what you suggest, but i can't see any evidence of earlier fixings. Fixing a slide bolt(s) through the metal where the doors meet wouldn't stop the doors bowing out when pulled/pushed as per our existing setup, but fixing bolts through the metal frames at the bottom and top of the left (overlapping) door might work, which is what i was considering but hadn't thought of running the bolts through the metal frame. This could be further reinforced by either additional bolts between the doors, or a metal bar that  stretches across the width of the doors as previously suggested by someone else.

EDIT: oops, no, it was you Jen!  

4 hours ago, CV32 said:

an example > 

. 

Thanks, i can see that this could provide a very secure fitting.

I still can't work out how our hatch doors were meant to be secured when the boat was originally fitted out though..... It seems obvious from the replies to this thread that there are no standardised ways of securing side hatches, which rather surprises me.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Froggy

[BWM]

If you want something reasonably secure until you get a permanent solution, one or two sash locks fitted correctly will do. They pull the doors in nicely, enough to put off a casual attempt.

[Richard T]

If you fix one part of  this type of lock to the lid and the other to the door with the lip on it it will make the side doors and hatch reasonably securehttps://www.screwfix.com/p/brighton-sash-fastener-backplate-polished-brass-58mm-x-22mm/12811

[ditchcrawler]

22 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We met a chap at Middlewich a few years ago who swears blind by feeding Canada geese until one sticks it's head through the hatch, then slamming the doors and twisting until it stops flapping.

Apparently the breast and legs are the only bits worth eating, and it tastes a bit like cat ...

 

The legs are a wast of time as well, the breast is OK if its not to old

[Froggy]

13 hours ago, BWM said:

If you want something reasonably secure until you get a permanent solution, one or two sash locks fitted correctly will do. They pull the doors in nicely, enough to put off a casual attempt.

Are you talking of something along the lines of this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104160

or this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104164

EDIT: on closer inspection i don't think either of those would work.....

Edited February 23, 2018 by Froggy

[Froggy]

3 hours ago, Richard T said:

If you fix one part of  this type of lock to the lid and the other to the door with the lip on it it will make the side doors and hatch reasonably securehttps://www.screwfix.com/p/brighton-sash-fastener-backplate-polished-brass-58mm-x-22mm/12811

That might work on ours, even though we don't have a lid..... am tempted to visit the local Screwfix to have a closer look since the price is very reasonable.

[BWM]

9 hours ago, Richard T said:

If you fix one part of  this type of lock to the lid and the other to the door with the lip on it it will make the side doors and hatch reasonably securehttps://www.screwfix.com/p/brighton-sash-fastener-backplate-polished-brass-58mm-x-22mm/12811

This is the type I was referring to. 

6 hours ago, Froggy said:

Are you talking of something along the lines of this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104160

or this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104164

EDIT: on closer inspection i don't think either of those would work.....

The first link is a similar lock to a sash and would probably be a more secure option. I've attached a picture of one I fitted as a temporary measure. 

[Froggy]

4 hours ago, BWM said:

This is the type I was referring to. 

The first link is a similar lock to a sash and would probably be a more secure option. I've attached a picture of one I fitted as a temporary measure. 

Thanks for the photo. Yeah, that might work, at least as a partial solution along with a heavy duty bar across the two hatches or something. It looks as if these fasteners do the same job as a slide bolt but without having to drill a bolt hole in the frame. This might be preferable in fact to bolts because the holes would have to be drilled at an angle into the frame. possible compromising the frame if you drill too deep. It looks like you have replaced a previously fitted bolt yourself, so did you find the sash fastener more effective?

[BWM]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

Thanks for the photo. Yeah, that might work, at least as a partial solution along with a heavy duty bar across the two hatches or something. It looks as if these fasteners do the same job as a slide bolt but without having to drill a bolt hole in the frame. This might be preferable in fact to bolts because the holes would have to be drilled at an angle into the frame. possible compromising the frame if you drill too deep. It looks like you have replaced a previously fitted bolt yourself, so did you find the sash fastener more effective?

They are surprisingly effective, pulling the doors in very tight. bolts tend to allow the doors to move slightly, possibly encouraging a thief to try their luck. Attention needs to be paid when fitting to get the best results. 

[Jim Batty]

I've posted these before, but I find Asec Garage Door Bolts amazingly useful for securing side hatches and overhead hatches. The hardened steel bolt extends about 5cm, can be opened with special security keys from outside as well as inside if you want (by drilling a keyhole and mounting the stainless steel escutcheon) or just from inside, and they are extremely robust. They can be mounted at the bottom or top of a side hatch door directly through the steel, in a position that allows the bolt to extend over or into some part of the steel lip or frame that most hatches have. You can use the female bolt receiving tubes if it's going into a wooden frame over steel, or just drilled holes, depending on your setup. A pair costs about £25 and you can get them at all sorts of places online, or sometimes a security places for a tenner more.

If you need them to stand proud, fit a hardwood block cut to size just beneath them and bolt that together with the lock to the hatch.

https://www.asec.co.uk/asec-garage-door-bolt-locking-kit-en-gb/

Edited February 25, 2018 by Jim Batty

[system 4-50]

5 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

I've posted these before, but I find Asec Garage Door Bolts amazingly useful for securing side hatches and overhead hatches. The hardened steel bolt extends about 5cm, can be opened with special security keys from outside as well as inside if you want (by drilling a keyhole and mounting the stainless steel escutcheon) or just from inside, and they are extremely robust. They can be mounted at the bottom or top of a side hatch door directly through the steel, in a position that allows the bolt to extend over or into some part of the steel lip or frame that most hatches have. You can use the female bolt receiving tubes if it's going into a wooden frame over steel, or just drilled holes, depending on your setup. A pair costs about £25 and you can get them at all sorts of places online, or sometimes a security places for a tenner more.

If you need them to stand proud, fit a hardwood block cut to size just beneath them and bolt that together with the lock to the hatch.

https://www.asec.co.uk/asec-garage-door-bolt-locking-kit-en-gb/

When you get them, the keys look like they go in any of 4 ways at 90 degs to each other but they don't, only 1 works in all the ones I bought. Marking the handle helps.Also don't strain the keys. Take any side load off (by pushing/pulling the door) before turning the key or they key itself can twist (DAMHIK). Turn through 360degs to lock/unlock.

[Froggy]

23 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

I've posted these before, but I find Asec Garage Door Bolts amazingly useful for securing side hatches and overhead hatches. The hardened steel bolt extends about 5cm, can be opened with special security keys from outside as well as inside if you want (by drilling a keyhole and mounting the stainless steel escutcheon) or just from inside, and they are extremely robust. They can be mounted at the bottom or top of a side hatch door directly through the steel, in a position that allows the bolt to extend over or into some part of the steel lip or frame that most hatches have. You can use the female bolt receiving tubes if it's going into a wooden frame over steel, or just drilled holes, depending on your setup. A pair costs about £25 and you can get them at all sorts of places online, or sometimes a security places for a tenner more.

If you need them to stand proud, fit a hardwood block cut to size just beneath them and bolt that together with the lock to the hatch.

https://www.asec.co.uk/asec-garage-door-bolt-locking-kit-en-gb/

Thanks, that's a serious bit of kit, I'll take a closer look at this option.

[Machpoint005]

On 2/21/2018 at 22:45, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The coach bolts are unsightly and gives a potential water ingress point.

In my experience that's true of side hatches generally. I'm very pleased to say we haven't any!

Edited February 26, 2018 by Machpoint005

[BWM]

On 25/02/2018 at 13:51, Jim Batty said:

I've posted these before, but I find Asec Garage Door Bolts amazingly useful for securing side hatches and overhead hatches. The hardened steel bolt extends about 5cm, can be opened with special security keys from outside as well as inside if you want (by drilling a keyhole and mounting the stainless steel escutcheon) or just from inside, and they are extremely robust. They can be mounted at the bottom or top of a side hatch door directly through the steel, in a position that allows the bolt to extend over or into some part of the steel lip or frame that most hatches have. You can use the female bolt receiving tubes if it's going into a wooden frame over steel, or just drilled holes, depending on your setup. A pair costs about £25 and you can get them at all sorts of places online, or sometimes a security places for a tenner more.

If you need them to stand proud, fit a hardwood block cut to size just beneath them and bolt that together with the lock to the hatch.

https://www.asec.co.uk/asec-garage-door-bolt-locking-kit-en-gb/

I have bought these as 'Enfield garage door locks' before to secure entrance doors, very beefy for side hatches but truly impregnable! On side hatches I personally wouldn't drill through, as the convenience of being able to unlock from the outside would be outweighed by the inevitable leakage, due to the angle of the cabin sides.

[Jim Batty]

On 02/25/2018 at 19:33, system 4-50 said:

When you get them, the keys look like they go in any of 4 ways at 90 degs to each other but they don't, only 1 works in all the ones I bought. Marking the handle helps.Also don't strain the keys. Take any side load off (by pushing/pulling the door) before turning the key or they key itself can twist (DAMHIK). Turn through 360degs to lock/unlock.

The keys we have have a little orientation bump on one side, so it's easy to align them correctly even in the dark. All three keys work, but I made sure the key holes I drilled were a bit over sized to allow for expanding wood in some seasons.

Yes, we just open the sidehatches from the inside, so haven't drilled through. Whereas on the main door we can lock it from either side.

[Froggy]

On 26/02/2018 at 17:31, Machpoint005 said:

In my experience that's true of side hatches generally. I'm very pleased to say we haven't any!

That's interesting because we've never had problems with water ingress from the side hatch - whereas many of the windows allow some ingress in an irregular fashion, largely depending on the strength of the rain and the direction of the wind.

[Froggy]

Many thanks for everybody's input to this thread. I've now improved our side hatch security considerably from the information you provided.

[luggsy]

This is what we have done stainless steel brackets screwed through the steel doors 

[Sea Dog]

4 minutes ago, luggsy said:

This is what we have done stainless steel brackets screwed through the steel doors 

Good idea. I might beef up my own side hatch arrangements in that way.

If I might just add a small idea for improvement? You're not trying to prevent someone opening the hatch from the inside where the padlock is, but someone may one day need to use that hatch as an emergency exit.  Either hang an open padlock with the key in on the rings or use something like a drop nose pin or a carabiner which doesn't need a key. It's the metal bar bit  that's doing the job of holding the doors together against outside attack, so it could just as well be easily removable from the inside.

[luggsy]

Hi the locks are only on when we are not aboard 

[system 4-50]

I used to use one of those padlocks.  It failed, when locked just on a chain. No way would the key open it.  Had to be thrown away. Now I always worry about the results of any of my many padlocks seizing solid when actually attached.