mark99 Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) These were for sale in a Cafe/junk shop in Guildford. Bad photo. Think they are mid 1980 models. £4 each iirc. Edited February 17, 2018 by mark99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 Almost certainly from the "Scale Scenes" series of card kits. Very good if made correctly and may have been originally designed by Alex Prowse?". Far superior to the "Craft line" balsa models of the time but supassed then onlly by the High Line Yachting / Pendon museum model of a large Northwich in white metal. Today Langley models do a set but the artwork supplied isnt good and not well researched. Big hole here still in the railway modelling market for good accurate models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I don't think they are Scale Scenes kits. They certainly look like the ones of President and Northwich that I have made in the past although I can't remember the manufacturer (it may turn out to be Scale Scenes after all). I'll try to dig them out as I certainly have the packaging in a box of bits and I remember seeing it not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalboat Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Almost certainly from the kits produced by Garth Allen who had his boat based at Dapdune Wharf in Guildford. A long time ago he gave me the only ones he had left after selling his stock to a toy shop owner in Wales where apparently they were destroyed during a marital argument. Edited February 18, 2018 by canalboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Garth Allen does ring a bell. Have just popped into the garage and dug out my finished ones of President and Northwich plus a 'work in progress' which I think was meant to turn out to be Redshank or Greenshank whichever the motor is (the butty as-yet un-started). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalboat Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 18 hours ago, mark99 said: These were for sale in a Cafe/junk shop in Guildford. Bad photo. Think they are mid 1980 models. £4 each iirc. Do you mean they are for sale as seen in the photo or do they still have the kits? I would certainly buy them. Can you recall where the cafe is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, canalboat said: Do you mean they are for sale as seen in the photo or do they still have the kits? I would certainly buy them. Can you recall where the cafe is? They are made up as seen. There are some other crude balsa models for sale too. Location here. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.2367251,-0.5705641,3a,90y,227.24h,80.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEsxlCqoB6LbqWuGYw6dwUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, canalboat said: Almost certainly from the kits produced by Garth Allen who had his boat based at Dapdune Wharf in Guildford. A long time ago he gave me the only ones he had left after selling his stock to a toy shop owner in Wales where apparently they were destroyed during a marital argument. I totally agree, it is Garth Allan not Alex Prowse, CWS (wholesalers) had some remaining card stock some years ago. The really detailed white metal motor narrow boat kit (refered to earlier) was marketed through "Marlow Models" and was approved by Pendon. An example of the range is this windmill : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OLD-ENGLISH-SERIES-MARLOW-MODELS-LACEY-GREEN-WINDMILL-WOODEN-MODEL-KIT/263406851305?hash=item3d544594e9:g:PxcAAOSwrFtZ80nx I still have the remaining boxes, decals and instructions to the"Large Northwich" motor kit but alas only two sets of white metal castings. The location of the master moulds is still a mystery! Edited February 18, 2018 by Laurence Hogg add info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 If anyone buys those models, there is some info on the baseplate once you turn it upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 12 hours ago, canalboat said: Almost certainly from the kits produced by Garth Allen who had his boat based at Dapdune Wharf in Guildford. A long time ago he gave me the only ones he had left after selling his stock to a toy shop owner in Wales where apparently they were destroyed during a marital argument. Interesting! My Dad picked up a lovely cardboard model kit of a wooden motor narrow boat at (I think) the Lymm National Rally in 1973. He photocopied it at work and I made up a few models, but never kept a clean original. Some years later I was chatting to Garth on his stand at a rally, and we both recalled the same models, but neither of us could recall who had produced them. So it looks like Garth decided to create his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 16 hours ago, David Mack said: Interesting! My Dad picked up a lovely cardboard model kit of a wooden motor narrow boat at (I think) the Lymm National Rally in 1973. He photocopied it at work and I made up a few models, but never kept a clean original. Some years later I was chatting to Garth on his stand at a rally, and we both recalled the same models, but neither of us could recall who had produced them. So it looks like Garth decided to create his own. That model was almost certainly a model of Samuel Barlows "Ian" which was pre coloured and could produce a very fine model. I still have some unmade versions and it was latterly marketed by the late Lockmaster Crafts" (Doug Smith), they occasionally turn up on ebay. However it seems they are still available from CWS: http://www.centralwaterways.co.uk/motor-boat-ian-kit-cardboard.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 18/02/2018 at 11:49, mark99 said: If anyone buys those models, there is some info on the baseplate once you turn it upside down. Health and Safety Warning Do not try this with the full size model. (There's probably no information on the baseplate by now anyway) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said: That model was almost certainly a model of Samuel Barlows "Ian" which was pre coloured and could produce a very fine model. I still have some unmade versions and it was latterly marketed by the late Lockmaster Crafts" (Doug Smith), they occasionally turn up on ebay. However it seems they are still available from CWS: http://www.centralwaterways.co.uk/motor-boat-ian-kit-cardboard.html No definitely not that one. This one was drawn in black and white and was the whole boat - hull, cabin, cratch, mast, stands, top planks etc., whereas the "Ian" kit only shows the bits above the water line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Was it on pinkish/flesh coloured card and OO scale? I had one which I was too young and inexpert to ever finish. The name Neville New rings a bell. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Paul H said: Was it on pinkish/flesh coloured card and OO scale? I had one which I was too young and inexpert to ever finish. The name Neville New rings a bell. Paul I don't remember pinkish card - but I had one original and several photocopies on white paper. OO scale is 4mm to the foot? That would make the model 280mm long and 28mm beam which sounds about right. Edited February 19, 2018 by David Mack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie57 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, Paul H said: Was it on pinkish/flesh coloured card and OO scale? I had one which I was too young and inexpert to ever finish. The name Neville New rings a bell. Paul I have one of Neville News' as you describe - I believe he was a director of Hostelcraft ( ie horse drawn Pamela) and a member of the Newcomen society in the 1960s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 OO scale is indeed 4mm to the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 47 minutes ago, Derek R. said: OO scale is indeed 4mm to the foot. I love mixed units! Of course that means a model of 4' 8.5" gauged track should have the rails about 18.83mm apart, whereas OO actaully uses gauge of just 16.5mm, which scales up to only 4' 3". That's why OO gauge models always look like they are too big in relation to the track used. I'll take the Anorak off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) You are correct. Though both scales - OO & HO run on 4mm to the foot gauge track, though sleeper spacing is different, and that can also vary with manufacturer. OO scale, 1:76 results in locos and rolling stock being oversized for the track, whereas HO scale at 1:87, results in correct dimensions relative to the 16.5mm track gauge - smaller rolling stock. Strange the UK stuck to 1:67 scale, when most of the world went HO scale. Now who's wearing the anorak? Edited February 20, 2018 by Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Derek R. said: Now who's wearing the anorak? And carrying stale cheese sandwhiches in folded greaseproof paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRP Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Here's the "Ian" model Sadly, in rather better condition than the real Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 14 hours ago, mark99 said: And carrying stale cheese sandwhiches in folded greaseproof paper. Left long enough, they too would reduce in scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 19/02/2018 at 22:03, alan_fincher said: I love mixed units! Of course that means a model of 4' 8.5" gauged track should have the rails about 18.83mm apart, whereas OO actaully uses gauge of just 16.5mm, which scales up to only 4' 3". That's why OO gauge models always look like they are too big in relation to the track used. I'll take the Anorak off now. Yes, it is odd (the scale, not your anorak) - especially as HO means "Half 0" and it would have been logical for Trix, Graham Farish and the other early U.K. model railway manufacturers to use that scale. The only reason I can think of for the adoption of "00" scale is that real British trains tended to be smaller than continental ones, so the slightly different scale meant that they would look "right" when seen side by side. I think that a small number of dedicated anorak-wearers did build track which was the right gauge for 00 models - was it called EM Gauge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Athy said: I think that a small number of dedicated anorak-wearers did build track which was the right gauge for 00 models - was it called EM Gauge? Yes, and / or Scalefour and P4 The Scalefour Society caters for the needs of railway modellers working to the scale of 4mm/ft (1:76.2), the most popular of the British model railway scales. It promotes and encourages the use of effective modelling techniques and fine scale standards among all 4mm railway modellers with a particular emphasis on the use of scale wheels and track. https://www.scalefour.org/ http://p4layouts.org.uk/ http://www.emgs.org/ EM means Eighteen Millimetres – the original finescale track gauge adopted by 4mm scale modellers in the mid-1950s (now 18.2mm). Edited February 21, 2018 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Thanks for the explanation of "EM" - I don't think I ever knew that until now. I have not heard of "Scale Four" but the name does make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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