Aceleron - repurposed lithium batteries for boaters

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Or they have tried selling them elsewhere and nobody wants iffy, secondhand batteries - "sell 'em to some boaters' they won't know anything about the technicalities of batteries, and if they burst into flames, the water will put the fire out - Win, Win"

I believe one of the main markets is for electric trolling motors on fishing boats.  Seems appropriate somehow ...

 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

Do you know they have not addressed this or are you making a different set of assumptions?

Neither. I am asking the question, which no supplier has answered (to date) as far as I’m aware.  

One supplier was asked the question directly and obfuscated; other suppliers, to the best of my knowledge, have simply stayed quiet on the subject. 

Perhaps there’s no problem but if that’s the case why aren’t any of the suppliers prepared to say so?

[Tony Brooks]

44 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Or they have tried selling them elsewhere and nobody wants iffy, secondhand batteries - "sell 'em to some boaters' they won't know anything about the technicalities of batteries, and if they burst into flames, the water will put the fire out - Win, Win"

I think they have. I saw a TV programme about storing solar and wind electricity when the grid has too much and one "solution" was being punted by a company from West London. I also noticed the company representative was from an ethnic background I have been taught by telephone experience not to trust. I would get no closer to them than the length of the stick on my roof but I hope I am wrong in that.

[bizzard]

Check it out with Boeing, on 787 800.

[TheBiscuits]

14 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Check it out with Boeing, on 787 800.

The FAA also announced plans to conduct an extensive review of the 787's critical systems. The focus of the review was on the safety of the lithium-ion batteries that use lithium cobalt oxide(LiCoO2) as the positive electrode. These electrodes are known for their thermal runaway hazard and provide oxygen for a fire. The 787 battery contract was signed in 2005, when LiCoO2 batteries were the only type of lithium aerospace battery available, but since then newer and safer types (such as LiFePO4) and LiMn2O4 (Lithium Manganate), which provide less reaction energy during thermal runaway, have become available.

There are several types of Lithium battery available.

[nb Innisfree]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

The batteries in the link are "re-purposed", marketing bollux for made from secondhand cells from batteries returned under warranty with some faulty cells. This explains the low price.

My understanding of the Tesla battery shortage is that Tesla were hoping to automate battery assembly, but have failed to do so, and are having to go back to the much slower manual assembly methods.

Yes marketing bollox but batts past their EV service life are ok for many years to power houses and the like

Panasonic own some or all of the manufacturing equipment and are working with Tesla to sort out production probs. 

Edited February 17, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[Tom and Bex]

On 16/02/2018 at 21:20, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What price would be right for you?

And what level of safety assurance would you need?

Price depends on what's on offer and bank account balance at the time☺ Not very helpful I know!

Safety, just really looking at what (if any) safety devices are fitted/required, and assurance from supplier they won't burst into flames destroying our home! I understand LiFePO4 are safer than the other earlier types but unsure what the batteries in OP would be. 

Thinking of replacing my 1 year old (very) cheapo leisure batteries with some Trojan T105's. Probably early to mid summer depending how well (badly) the current ones hold out now solar is starting to give some noticeable contribution. Will be having a long hard look at  all available options nearer the time.

Have been surprised how much lithium batteries have come down in price recently whilst lead acid continues to rise. If research shows some of the cheaper options around are safe to use might give them serious consideration. Happy to carry out modification to wiring and charging devices if required and not too difficult/expensive. Not necessarily expecting straight drop in replacement unless spending considerably more than I have! 

[peterboat]

Well I am collecting 8 x 138 ah lifepo4 on saturday, they are for the bathtub. Where I am getting them from, has a bank of them on his boat where they have performed fantastically. He uses solar gennie and engine for charging, the trick is to buy nice batteries from America designed for the job and at the right price.  Anyway in my case the charger  will be solar and the new whispergen, I will have the software and lead to look at the BMS, so I will know if charging is going wrong. On the plus side plenty of these batteries have done over 5000 cycles already so they should be the last batteries I ever buy.

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Well I am collecting 8 x 138 ah lifepo4 on saturday, they are for the bathtub. Where I am getting them from, has a bank of them on his boat where they have performed fantastically. He uses solar gennie and engine for charging, the trick is to buy nice batteries from America designed for the job and at the right price.  Anyway in my case the charger  will be solar and the new whispergen, I will have the software and lead to look at the BMS, so I will know if charging is going wrong. On the plus side plenty of these batteries have done over 5000 cycles already so they should be the last batteries I ever buy.

Makes excellent sense for an electric drive boat - they should keep at about 13V until they are flat so you will always be getting good drive out of them.

Keeps us posted on how they do, and could you tell us what manufacturer they are from please?

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Makes excellent sense for an electric drive boat - they should keep at about 13V until they are flat so you will always be getting good drive out of them.

Keeps us posted on how they do, and could you tell us what manufacturer they are from please?

Valance they were ina ford transit but it met a very early end!! they have completed less than 20 cycles so someone elses loss is my gain if I needed batteries on my normal boat I would go down the same route.

For the bathtub they should be ideal as I am just having the one set of batteries so if they are fully charged by solar I will discharging them through the night with domestic use, so 100% should never be be left in the batteries. James who I am getting them from says they are great on his boat. they have made life so much easier in terms of speed of charging and maintenance, he checks them once a month with the puter to make sure the BMS is doing its job balancing the cells

[Dave_P]

On 17/02/2018 at 11:08, Dr Bob said:

 

 

On 17/02/2018 at 11:29, TheBiscuits said:

 

If you pull the boat fast enough does the ecofan spin backwards and generate heat to warm the boat up?

An ecofan spinning backwards cools the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Dave_P said:

 

An ecofan spinning backwards cools the boat.

But not by very much (if at all)

[Dave_P]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But not by very much (if at all)

The amount it cools the boat is directly proportional to how desperate you are for it to work, based on how much you just forked out for it.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

The amount it cools the boat is directly proportional to how desperate you are for it to work, based on how much you just forked out for it.

Greenie awarded.

[Dave_P]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Greenie awarded.

I'll treasure him always

[Mac of Cygnet]

On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 15:50, Tony Brooks said:

I think they have. I saw a TV programme about storing solar and wind electricity when the grid has too much and one "solution" was being punted by a company from West London. I also noticed the company representative was from an ethnic background I have been taught by telephone experience not to trust. I would get no closer to them than the length of the stick on my roof but I hope I am wrong in that.

I agree.  I always put the phone down if a Glasgwegian replies.

Edited to say that that there is an article about lithium batteries in this month's NABO magazine, but of course it doesn't go into NEARLY as much detail as this thread.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Mac of Cygnet

[Iain_S]

On 2/17/2018 at 15:50, Tony Brooks said:

I think they have. I saw a TV programme about storing solar and wind electricity when the grid has too much and one "solution" was being punted by a company from West London. I also noticed the company representative was from an ethnic background I have been taught by telephone experience not to trust. I would get no closer to them than the length of the stick on my roof but I hope I am wrong in that.

I'm researching a system which does this. The clever bit is an inverter/charger which measures current from the solar and from the grid, and tries to make the grid current zero while the battery bank is between 20% and 80%. From the inverter (Sofar ME3000SP, if anyone wants to google it) manual, it appears the system can operate as a UPS for critical loads, although the guy I emailed says that it won't, and the entire system shuts down in the event of a power cut.  From the price of the kit at 4.8kWh storage,  and our solar generation figures, it looks like it would pay for itself in five or six years, although I really need to do regular checks of solar and grid meters to confirm, and also to figure out the optimum battery bank size.

There are other systems available: the guy I asked at LGH said if I wanted UPS, I could get a Victron or EasySolar system, but it would be more expensive. 

[Johny London]

I see Jono has gone for lithiums... bit of a lengthy one this though...

 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Johny London said:

I see Jono has gone for lithiums... bit of a lengthy one this though...

 

 

You bustud for posting that. I was ready to slash my wrists after listening to Jono's monotonous tedium for less than five minutes.

Thankfully I was able to to force myself to hit the stop button...

 

[Robbo]

11 hours ago, Johny London said:

I see Jono has gone for lithiums... bit of a lengthy one this though...

 

Was a good episode of Jonos, has sone good info in it if your thinking of going Lithium.

[LadyG]

On 22/02/2018 at 13:26, Mac of Cygnet said:

I agree.  I always put the phone down if a Glasgwegian replies.

 

See you,  Jimmy.......................!

Edited February 28, 2018 by LadyG

[mrsmelly]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You bustud for posting that. I was ready to slash my wrists after listening to Jono's monotonous tedium for less than five minutes.

Thankfully I was able to to force myself to hit the stop button...

 

Is this someone with a whole years liveaboard experience trying to re invent the wheel? I saw a thingy on You tube by some newb extolling the virtues of these batteries having only used fla for one year?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Is this someone with a whole years liveaboard experience trying to re invent the wheel? I saw a thingy on You tube by some newb extolling the virtues of these batteries having only used fla for one year?

I expect he's trying to get his number of  youtube followers increased, and hence income, so he can afford the batteries. 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, rusty69 said:

I expect he's trying to get his number of  youtube followers increased, and hence income, so he can afford the batteries. 

How much did they cost? I aint watching it.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

How much did they cost? I aint watching it.

Dunno. I didn't either.