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7 hours ago, churchward said:

No WE can't in the least you just wish it to be that way. I also did not make it illegal to be a prostitute in Hiati.  I would agree that on most things it is good to respect the views of others but there are times when it cannot be a black or white choice and their is conflict between an overall principle and specifcs of an actual event. Also respecting a view and agreeing are two very different things. I illustrated this point with the comparison of attitudes and legality of LGBT in some countries but you want to ignore that as it does not fit with your mantra. In Chechnya LGBT folk are rounded up kidnapped and sent to concentration camps. They think it is normal and  (as far as it is accurate just now) that around 100 people are being held in these camps for their sexual orientation. I certainly do not respect those actions. We all make judgements you clearly do too by your random insults and you just sound like an apologist for these people.

I will just say again that I am not commenting on the Haitian people but the people who went there from a similar or same culture as mine (e.g from Europe) and behaved as they did. They are accused of doing more than just buying a service in any case. Saying it is OK because that is what they do there is not reason enough and seems you are just being an apologist for them.

I am if you wish being disrespectful of the people who would do these deeds when they were supposed to be doing something else in the same way I would not be respectful of a viewpoint of someone who commits a crime. That however cannot be extruded to mean that I do not respect the views of the Haitians.  I certainly respect the views of the government there who see the behaviour as an issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/17/oxfam-sex-scandal-tip-iceberg-haitian-president-claims/

 

If the chap worked in a Supermarket in the UK and was found to have used a prostitute it would be a complete non-story except perhaps in some smutty  newspaper desperate for a story to satisfy the self-righteous prudes (who typically like to see such stuff as it deflects attention away from their own misdeeds). So it is not as though the chap was doing anything abhorrent in our culture. Or in the local culture. So the whole thing is a complete non-story whipped up into a frenzy to feed the nouveau-prudes who like to call themselves liberals, when they are anything but.

If you send single men off to another country what do you expect them to do? Men are programmed to have sex, it is natural. But I suppose you are going to tell me that sex outside of marriage is a sin according to the bible.

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

If the chap worked in a Supermarket in the UK and was found to have used a prostitute it would be a complete non-story except perhaps in some smutty  newspaper desperate for a story to satisfy the self-righteous prudes (who typically like to see such stuff as it deflects attention away from their own misdeeds). So it is not as though the chap was doing anything abhorrent in our culture. Or in the local culture. So the whole thing is a complete non-story whipped up into a frenzy to feed the nouveau-prudes who like to call themselves liberals, when they are anything but.

If you send single men off to another country what do you expect them to do? Men are programmed to have sex, it is natural. But I suppose you are going to tell me that sex outside of marriage is a sin according to the bible.

The issue is that you continue to ignore that the accusations here are not just about someone using a prostitute it goes way beyond that. I see you also ignore the statements made by the Haitian government that does not fit your stance. Our intelligence is supposed to make us rise above other animals and will to choose keep us from doing the wrong thing. it is how we change and construct our society it is not based on our more base instincts. You really do sound like an apologist for sex offenders.

You make a lot of very silly assumptions about other people and what they may have done or believe. You are just making stuff up as you really like to pigeon whole people it must make it all very comfortable and cosy for you.  The asides you make do not do your point of view any service at all they just make you look foolish.

Anyway since normal service has been resumed by you in your thinly veiled insults and silly assumptions I will stop now as your allotted time is up and feeding time for the trolls is over.

Edited by churchward

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10 minutes ago, churchward said:

The issue is that you continue to ignore that the accusations here are not just about someone using a prostitute it goes way beyond that. I see you also ignore the statements made by the Haitian government that does not fit your stance. Our intelligence is supposed to make us rise above other animals and will to choose keep us from doing the wrong thing. it is how we change and construct our society it is not based on our more base instincts. You really do sound like an apologist for sex offenders.

You make a lot of very silly assumptions about other people and what they may have done or believe. You are just making stuff up as you really like to pigeon whole people it must make it all very comfortable and cosy for you.  The asides you make do not do your point of view any service at all they just make you look foolish.

Anyway since normal service has been resumed by you in your thinly veiled insults and silly assumptions I will stop now as your allotted time is up and feeding time for the trolls is over.

Oh dear, do you feel you are losing the argument again? I have confined my arguments only to the point about the use of prostitutes. There may or may not have been other stuff which may or may not have been acceptable, neither of are in a position to know or comment. Oh and can I explain that using a prostitute doesn’t make you a sex offender? Yes you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one!

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52 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Oh dear, do you feel you are losing the argument again? I have confined my arguments only to the point about the use of prostitutes. There may or may not have been other stuff which may or may not have been acceptable, neither of are in a position to know or comment. Oh and can I explain that using a prostitute doesn’t make you a sex offender? Yes you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one!

Again? I don't think so.  I am not going to continue with someone who feels it is OK to say the things you do and make assumptions about people. All you do is try to insult and ignore the points from others that do not fit your view.  You are jumping to conclusions again.  The issue is beyond just employing a prostitute now saying you are confining your comments to that is convenient but is not the point. There are many accounts of other events some of which I have shown you including the Haitian government but you just ignore it. If we cannot be sure that something other than a payment to a prostitute occurred how can you be sure even that is true? That is why you appear to be an apologist for the potential offences.

I am sure this is now very boring for everyone so I invite you to stop playing your game. I am not going to post further unless you can do so sensibly and without jibes and insults.

Edited by churchward

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2 minutes ago, churchward said:

Again? I don't think so.  I am not going to continue with someone who feels it is OK to say the things you do and make assumptions about people. All you do is try to insult and ignore the points from others that do not fit your view.  You are jumping to conclusions again.  The issue is beyond just employing a prostitute now saying you are confining your comments to that is convenient but is not the point. There are many accounts of other events some of which I have shown you including the Haitian government but you just ignore it. That is why you appear to be an apologist for the potential offences.

I am sure this is now very boring for everyone so I invite you to stop playing your game. I am not going to post further unless you can do so sensibly and without jibes and insults.

I have only ever been talking about using prostitutes. Why do you find it necessary to make up stuff that you claim I’ve said? Ok, rhetorical question!

I can see no point in discussing speculations from eg a cafe in Haiti about various misdeed that might or might not have actually happened. My original point was a clear cut one. I don’t see that using a prostitute in Haiti is a significant issue any more than it would be if done in the U.K. Anything else is beyond our remit because neither of us know what we are talking about since it is so far all speculation and rumour. There may be some wheat in it, but I am sure there is also a lot of chaff.

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The CEO hasn't done himself any favours :

Oxfam has battled to contain the fall-out from the scandal, and Goldring faced personal criticism after he was quoted in Saturday’s Guardian newspaper as saying: “The intensity and ferocity of the attacks makes you wonder, what did we do? We murdered babies in their cots? ... (it) feels out of proportion to the level of culpability.”

Opposition Labour politician and International Development committee chair Stephen Twigg said Goldring’s comments in a newspaper interview were regarded by many as “grossly inappropriate”, and on Tuesday Goldring apologised.

“I should not have said those things. It is not for Oxfam to judge issues of proportionality or motivation,” Goldring, who became CEO of Oxfam GB in 2013, told the committee. “I wholeheartedly apologise for those comments.”

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The CEO hasn't done himself any favours :

Oxfam has battled to contain the fall-out from the scandal, and Goldring faced personal criticism after he was quoted in Saturday’s Guardian newspaper as saying: “The intensity and ferocity of the attacks makes you wonder, what did we do? We murdered babies in their cots? ... (it) feels out of proportion to the level of culpability.”

Opposition Labour politician and International Development committee chair Stephen Twigg said Goldring’s comments in a newspaper interview were regarded by many as “grossly inappropriate”, and on Tuesday Goldring apologised.

“I should not have said those things. It is not for Oxfam to judge issues of proportionality or motivation,” Goldring, who became CEO of Oxfam GB in 2013, told the committee. “I wholeheartedly apologise for those comments.”

Not in the current climate of victim culture and needing to blame people for anything, be outraged about anything we can think of, you are right. But for anyone not a victim of populist hysteria (there are a few), his comments were entirely reasonable and sensible.

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Many peeps want to have a warm cuddly feeling when they give to charities like Oxfam.   Finding out what life is actually like on the front line will put them off.  Imagine a dear old lady sitting in her HSL chair watching daytime television, who plans to bequeath her estate to Oxfam.   The mere mention of prostitution could rob Oxfam of the proceeds from selling her million pound house.  

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