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billybobbooth

Dynastart off the flywheel

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On 11/02/2018 at 14:52, billybobbooth said:

I know there expencive but does anyone or has anyone used one for starting a diesel?

If so how successful was is?

I have a decompression lever.

 

I have one on the Samofa.

Doesn't work very well. 

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What engine is it you are thinking of putting it on?

The Samofa is a 25hp twin and it spins it up ok with decompression on, but it slows to a stop in two or three revs once decompression disengaged (unless it starts, obv!) 

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Used to be standard equipment on a lot of small diesels. I sailed a boat fitted with a penta twin cylinder and it worked fine both for starting and keeping the start battery up with its mighty 11A output.

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

What engine is it you are thinking of putting it on?

The Samofa is a 25hp twin and it spins it up ok with decompression on, but it slows to a stop in two or three revs once decompression disengaged (unless it starts, obv!)

Much the same as cranking by hand then but without the hard work.

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Was more of a case of im thinking of changing my alternator or running it off the flywheel which means changing the pully if i can. But was thinking it as a semi alternative with the advantage of turning the engine over before start up a sort of pre ignition if you like.

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My first post.... so please be nice!!

I recently fitted a dynastart to a RD1 as starting it by hand was becoming difficult in the depths of winter and I did not want to feed it cold start every day.

Starting it with the dynastart is much easier, as long as it turns in the right direction (school boy error on the first attempt and yes; different dynastart turn in different directions and you cannot reverse the polarity as a quick fix).

Unfortunately the RPM of the engine at normal working speeds did not provide a sufficient capability to charge the batteries through the dynastart so I piggybacked the original alternator just above it and powered it with a double pulley from dynastart.

I took this photo before I had finished tightening everything up, but i am sure you get the idea.

If you need any more information, let me know and I am sure I can dig something out.

IMG_1980.JPG

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My plan was to remove the front pully infront of the flywheel and run direct off the flywheel its self my current alternator wont charge properly at tick over slow rpm due to the 12" pully on the fly and 2.5" pully on the alt at 200 ish rpm on engine tickover means my alt is at around 800-1000 rpm and at running general im prob about 300-500 rpm meaning im only about 1500-2000 alt rpm given its only a austin mini 40amp alt its even though its only got to charge 2 batterys to run a 12v fridge using 3-4amp and 5 bildge pumps that never run (2 in hold and 3 in back) ive have to change the alt or the position anyways.

I was looking at putting a starter ring on at same time and a starter but it does start from cold fairly easy but was thinking if i can use something to turn it over to prime and then start by hand but if needed would start.

I would need to do something with the bolt on front pully as its not lined up perfect and wobbles a little not enough to throw the belt but it has a fixes smaller on on if needed.

By moving the charge to be driven from the pully to the fly this will solve the charge problem but may might create a starting issue if run from the flywheel due to it turning the engine over too slow.

My other option is run the dyno start off the smaller fixed pully on the flywheel and run my alt off the flywheel for charging.

The other option is as you have done and run both off 1 pully.

Its got to atleast turn over the national with decompression for priming. Once primed a 10-20 fast turns it starts on the flick of the start handle in very cold weather. But it have fairly high compression (if you drop the leaver down and not spinning fast the compression will just stop the engine) warm weather it will start fairly easy)

Im just trying to put something in that can aid starting if has to by hand at worst case.

Edited by billybobbooth

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On 11/02/2018 at 21:46, billybobbooth said:

Its got to atleast turn over the national with decompression for priming.

 

Yes I think it will do that, depending on what size Dynastart you have. There are several sizes I believe, and for reasons I can't remember, I believe mine is the biggest available. 

If you fancy a trip to Reading you're welcome to look at mine and have a play with it. Bring a charged battery though!

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On 11/02/2018 at 22:11, billybobbooth said:

I take you up on that soon be good to see what its like. Ill pm you and sort out dates.

 

Sure! Whenever you're ready.

Are they still available new? Where were you planning to get one, out of interest?

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8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Sure! Whenever you're ready.

Are they still available new? Where were you planning to get one, out of interest?

I have found a few most seam to be .75kw but ive found a few places that sell bosch units at .9kw and ive also found one for a tractor unit but im waiting to hear back on the kw rating as its a 12v but 25amp as the bosch is 12v but only 11amp

But you can get quite a few 0.9kw ones between 170-350 mostly from germany

Edited by billybobbooth

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I spoke with "Nick the engineer" who provided very detailed drawings for the electrical side of it as well as good advice in general about the set up.

I believe he can be found at vireengines.com 

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Dunno about dynastarts but I did once put a starter motor on an overhead handstart Ailsa Craig 20 hp diesel. It broke the ratchet mechanism so don't do that.

  • Greenie 1

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Very interested to see you're thinking of trying a Dynastart on a National.

The Northwest's favourite surveyor for historic boats has just suggested I consider one for a Russell Newbery, as a way to reduce the coronary risk!

He suggested taking the advice of Mr. Middleton, in Manchester.

I'm very much looking forward to report of how you get on.

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Hi all,

Tom here, been off site as I sold my old springer last season...

Anyone mind telling me how good or bad a Ducati boat engine is? It's a single pot and may be 18hp but unsure about the hp.

Itt has Dyna start, I have never heard of this, could anyone educate me as to why a starter wasn't used and do they start an engine ok?

 

Probably not the best engine set up but the boat is so good I may take a chance and buy it!

 

Also wondering if it would be a pain to pull the lot out and fit a regular engine in its place if all went wrong?  I'd have to get a workshop to do the work, mounts and the usual connections.....

 

Thanks so much.

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13 hours ago, Tom766 said:

Hi all,

Tom here, been off site as I sold my old springer last season...

Anyone mind telling me how good or bad a Ducati boat engine is? It's a single pot and may be 18hp but unsure about the hp.

Itt has Dyna start, I have never heard of this, could anyone educate me as to why a starter wasn't used and do they start an engine ok?

 

Probably not the best engine set up but the boat is so good I may take a chance and buy it!

 

Also wondering if it would be a pain to pull the lot out and fit a regular engine in its place if all went wrong?  I'd have to get a workshop to do the work, mounts and the usual connections.....

 

Thanks so much.

I think you probably need to ask yourself why, when at one tage, large numbers of Springers were fitted with Ducatti engines, almost none now are!

That tells me enough!

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Lincoln welders had Ducati single diesels......they used to vibrate so much the flywheel would unscrew the bolt and come off the taper............crack the aircleaner and exhaust ,and the noise has to be heard to be believed.....in a steel hull,it would be better than headbanger music on a millenials car stereo.

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Volvo Penta used Dynostarts for years on their smaller engines and they seemed OKish. For today's boater I doubt it would have sufficient charging output and if it went wrong I am not sure how many people properly understand them these days.

 

The Volvo ones were made by Bosch if the Ducatti ones are Marelli-Magnaleti (something lie that) I have a phobia about Italian electrics.

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I think the main field for dyna starts is lawn mowers and garden tractors.........Dodge had dynastart up to the Victory model in 1929,Lucas made one,NorthEast Electric made a good one,and as mentioned Bosch made one.......the Italian one is Magnat Marelli,and was Bosch licence...Not forgetting the Siba Dynastart on the bubblecars......it could start the engine in either direction ,saved the cost of a reverse gear.

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