DIY Docking

[cheshire~rose]

Following on from my question regarding the corrosive orange bacterial growth on hulls:

https://canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95042-corrosive-orange-fungus/&tab=comments#comment-2101890

It has prompted me to ask for some more advice. We always tend to take our boat to a reputable boatyard to be slipped and blacked and, as part of the process they will cast their experienced eye over the hull, rudder and prop and give a verbal report on what they find. We don't expect anything major but, as the boat is only 12 years old and was made by a reputable builder it gives peace of mind that there is not something we really need to be aware of, to either do before the boat goes back in the water or, to keep an eye on next time the boat is slipped in case it has deteriorated further. It is a great opportunity to check for excessive play in any moving bits (prop & rudder) and of course check the annodes.

What I have realised is that not everybody gets that verbal report from someone with an experienced eye, especially if they carry out a DIY docking. With insurance companies not requiring a hull survey on a boat until it is 20 years old and if a boat is kept for a long period of time by the same owner or purchased second hand without the benefit of a hull survey is it possible for the owner who has little experience to know what they should be doing and checking while their boat is out of the water?

Now I recognise that the "experienced eye" has a value and that is a very important part of what you are paying for when taking your boat to a boatyard. Personally I appreciate the peace of mind that we get from knowing that our boat has been looked at by someone with years of exerience, even if he did not test the hull thickness! I also have no wish to encourage people not to use boatyards or surveyors but for those who are trying to keep a potentially middle aged boat on the water within a very tight budget and those of us who worry that that there are too many boats out there on the system which could potentially sink at any time or lose their prop just as they round that bend and we are coming the other way perhaps a checklist of what someone needs to look at and look out for when their boat is slipped could be beneficial?

For example, do folks just give the prop a quick spin to check is moves freely or do they check for any forward/backward play and what else can someone do to help them understand what they are looking at while ther boat is out of the water?

 

[GUMPY]

Its hard tobreply to this as much of what I do when the boat is out of the water is subconscious, as in I don't think about what I do I just do it.

Check for any increased corrosion on the hull (I have a patch under the kitchen sink drain that needs attention sometime in the next 5 years) this is a reason for always using the same boatyard or diy as at present it would be flagged up by a yard but its no worse than it was 5 years ago when I bought the boat.

Check condition of sterngear (I will need a new bottom cup in the next 5 or so years but again its no worse than it was)

Check condition of anodes (add / replace as necessary) 

Just run an eye over the general condition of the hull.

That's about it, I may pay someone to black it in the future but will still carry out my own visual inspection (if I'm allowed to) to decide if any extra work needs doing.

Boat is 25 years old this year 

[cheshire~rose]

Thank you. I know exactly what you mean about it being subconcious, that is why having someone with years of experience to look over your hull is always going to be helpful. They kind of know where there might be a problem and the little signs to look for.

You mention wear to the bottom cup - I would have no idea what this would look like or how to check for it. Of course now it has been mentioned I would be asking for someone to show me next time I find myself next to a boat out of the water in the boatyard.

At 25 years old I expect your boat will be subject to requiring a hull survey anyway won't it? I like to think a decent surveyor will point out things that are going to be a problem before the next survey or slipping will take place anyway so you can bring toegther a maintenance schedule for your boat that incorporates the 5 year survey frequency. I feel the age to be concerned about is the teen years, especially on some of the more cheaply built hulls. They have lost the flush of youth and, depending on what care/use they had in their early years they could start to show signs of some serious defetcs long before they need a survey at 20 years. I have seen some horrendous pitting on rather young bow thuster tubes and heard all about deck drain tubes that are of steel that is far too thin to last as long as it should. Perhaps I need to stop loitering around boatyards!

[X Alan W]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Its hard tobreply to this as much of what I do when the boat is out of the water is subconscious, as in I don't think about what I do I just do it.

Check for any increased corrosion on the hull (I have a patch under the kitchen sink drain that needs attention sometime in the next 5 years) this is a reason for always using the same boatyard or diy as at present it would be flagged up by a yard but its no worse than it was 5 years ago when I bought the boat.

Check condition of sterngear (I will need a new bottom cup in the next 5 or so years but again its no worse than it was)

Check condition of anodes (add / replace as necessary) 

Just run an eye over the general condition of the hull.

That's about it, I may pay someone to black it in the future but will still carry out my own visual inspection (if I'm allowed to) to decide if any extra work needs doing.

Boat is 25 years old this year 

The next to last line of your post I would not use any yard/dock for taking my boat out of the water if I was denied access to it for the purpose of carrying out MY OWN visual inspection of MY boat the yard should remember that your boat being in their dock/on their slip brings in the cash to keep them in business I can understand the non DIY set up but to possibly have someone tell me I need to spend XXXx's of £'s on repairs that I am possibly not allowed to see beforehand , No Thankyou

[Bee]

Its all about keeping a layer of paint on the thing (Well mostly) B&Q white gloss would do so long as you did it every 12 months or less - maybe more, who knows?  I always check everything I can think of, certainly check the prop / nut / splitpin and rock and wiggle everything for slack keys etc. Frequency of docking is probably the most important thing though, last time 'Bee' was out was craned out in Holland and whilst the paint was drying I wandered into the covered slip where there was a big steel cruiser being painted, sort of traditional classic gentlemans cruiser sort of thing. I thought it was probably 5 years old or less, turns out it was nearly 50 and the exterior of the hull at least appeared to be perfect. Docked and painted every two years. The Dutch can be a bit obsessive about these things and the owner said nice things about 'Bee' but I think he was just being polite and he thought I was a lazy slipshod Brit painting over the scabby bits.

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

At 25 years old I expect your boat will be subject to requiring a hull survey anyway won't it?

Our insurers don't require a hull survey as long as the boat remains in the same ownership, and is continuously insured with them. At 26 years old,  I certainly look carefully when we DIY the blacking, and I'm considering getting a hull survey this year. Not because I expect a problem, but for the purposes of long-term planning, for instance of work best done a further two years down the line.

 

Cheers,

MP.

 

[cheshire~rose]

11 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Our insurers don't require a hull survey as long as the boat remains in the same ownership, and is continuously insured with them. At 26 years old,  I certainly look carefully when we DIY the blacking, and I'm considering getting a hull survey this year. Not because I expect a problem, but for the purposes of long-term planning, for instance of work best done a further two years down the line.

 

Cheers,

MP.

 

I have been made aware of a change in emphasis among insurers. Where they used to require sight of a survey in order to provide insurance they no longer do. I have also heard that does not mean that a survey is not required, it simply means that in the event of a claim they will probably ask to see your most recent survey and if one can't be produced.....

[rusty69]

When we originally purchased Mr Rusty in 1999, we had a hull survey,as I was not experienced enough to determine a good hull from a bad one.

Since then , the boat has been surveyed 3 times (its a 1983 Les Allen hull),the last time was last year. There was a ten year period in between that it wasn't surveyed, as I thought my more experienced understanding by that stage had determined that there was no significant deterioration in hull condition. 

Last year however,having found what I thought was a leak,we had it surveyed again,and it was found to be ok (panic over),but a regular survey would have bought  more piece-of-mind. Of course, I could go round hitting it with a hammer myself, and measure the thickness myself,but I can live with few hundred quid every few years.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by rusty69

[blackrose]

I've always done my own hull, sterngear (and bowgear!) maintenance. I don't think one needs that much experience. Spend a week with your boat in a drydock and you learn quite a lot. Mind you I've been living on boats for over 15 years now and also worked in a boatyard for a couple of years restoring 100 year old steam boats. Hardest job I've ever done but I learned a lot about boats. Granted, my knowledge of diesel engines isn't great, but it always amazes me when I meet people on boats who don't seem know the first thing about them - and don't seem interested! I shouldn't be that surprised I suppose - most people who drive around in cars don't know how they work.

It's nice to get the opinions of yard operators when you're out of the water, but personally I would never trust them to maintain my boat. Most just want it in and out as quickly as possible for the maximum amount of money they can get from you. That's their business.

Edited February 10, 2018 by blackrose

[stagedamager]

When we have diy hires on dock we always pressure wash the dock floor before anyone comes in as we don't offer a dock out in a state we wouldnt be willing to work in ourselves. As part of this we give the boat a quick once over as well and report back. It doesn't take long and has found to be useful to the customer.

 

Regards

 

Dan

[BEngo]

Once the boat is out the first thing to do is pressure wash (or grit blast). This cleans things up so you can see what is going on.

Then have a good look at your boat:

Are the anodes OK? - compare with a new one. If it bigger than 50% its good for another few years.

What do the pits in the hull look like? If they look deep get a thickness meter on them. Watch the waterline area particularly but don't ignore the bottom.

What is the wear on the base plate edge like?  The places to watch are the ends of the bow and stern swims.  There should still be some baseplate left before the weld to the sides.

What is the play in the shaft? Push hard on it up down left and right. There should be little or no movement.

Check for play between the rudder stock and the bottom cup. Will be some but not more than 3 mm is OK.

Check inside weed hatch rudder tube and bow thruster tube looking for wear and pitting. Get a thicness check if unsure.

Chec any submerged gas locker bottoms (or similar) for pitting and erosion. Thickness check if needed.

Nö

[cheshire~rose]

20 hours ago, blackrose said:

I've always done my own hull, sterngear (and bowgear!) maintenance. I don't think one needs that much experience. Spend a week with your boat in a drydock and you learn quite a lot. Mind you I've been living on boats for over 15 years now and also worked in a boatyard for a couple of years restoring 100 year old steam boats. Hardest job I've ever done but I learned a lot about boats. Granted, my knowledge of diesel engines isn't great, but it always amazes me when I meet people on boats who don't seem know the first thing about them - and don't seem interested! I shouldn't be that surprised I suppose - most people who drive around in cars don't know how they work.

It's nice to get the opinions of yard operators when you're out of the water, but personally I would never trust them to maintain my boat. Most just want it in and out as quickly as possible for the maximum amount of money they can get from you. That's their business.

Back in the 60's my dad knew how to do the basic checks he needed to on his Ford Pop but he was never mechanically minded and if there was anything wrong with it he had a word with our friendly neighbour who worked at Ford's in Degenham so because he built Ford's he clearly knew how to fix ours When he worked his way up the pay scale he just relied on taking his car to the garage and changing it for a new one every 3 years. Cars have been designed to stop anyone inexperienced from tampering with them these days (and often that is for very good reason) Open the bonnet on any modern car and you will find an oil filler cap, a washer bottle filler cap and a brake fluid reservoir and that is where the extent of the DIY servicing ends (oh and putting some air in the tyres too) It has not been so easy for those who have been the youth over the last couple of decades to get hold of a car that is very simple to work on and so, unless they have any interest in how things are engineered it is a completely foreign language to them.

When I started messing about with boats I had a basic understanding of how cars and engines work but boats have bits hidden under the water and not being able to see them and work out how it all works meant I was clueless when my friends boat had a problem with the rudder. It was a Google search that found this forum for me where I asked my question and was made welcome. If you have of told me back then I would end up being involved with restoring a historic boat I would have laughed at you but we all start somewhere.

Seeing your boat out of the water for the first time can be reveals a great expanse of boat that doesn't really do very much more than keep the water out (hopefully) and it is knowing which bits to pay attention to which could give someone with little experience the confidence to look more closely.

Sometimes the "lack of interest" can simply be a fear of looking like an idiot. It takes a bit of courage to admit you know nothing when you are at the side of someone who is, in your eyes, the oracle(the boat builder)! especially if you do not know them well enough to trust them not to suck their teeth and point out something that will cost you a few more ££££. 

10 hours ago, BEngo said:

Once the boat is out the first thing to do is pressure wash (or grit blast). This cleans things up so you can see what is going on.

Then have a good look at your boat:

Are the anodes OK? - compare with a new one. If it bigger than 50% its good for another few years.

What do the pits in the hull look like? If they look deep get a thickness meter on them. Watch the waterline area particularly but don't ignore the bottom.

What is the wear on the base plate edge like?  The places to watch are the ends of the bow and stern swims.  There should still be some baseplate left before the weld to the sides.

What is the play in the shaft? Push hard on it up down left and right. There should be little or no movement.

Check for play between the rudder stock and the bottom cup. Will be some but not more than 3 mm is OK.

Check inside weed hatch rudder tube and bow thruster tube looking for wear and pitting. Get a thicness check if unsure.

Chec any submerged gas locker bottoms (or similar) for pitting and erosion. Thickness check if needed.

Nö

Thank you for that - that is a very clear list to work to and the wear on the edge is something I had forgotten on my list!