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Owner fit outs


MichaelG

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Hi all, we are currently looking for our first narrowboat and I was wondering if there are any particular things that should be looked out for when the boat has been fitted out by the owner rather than a professional boat fitter. Clearly a lot will depend on the skills and abilities of the particular owner but are there any points in that should be looked out for in a DIY fit out.  

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On all the fit-outs I've done (five in all), I've kept a fairly detailed photographic record.  If the boat you are interested in has such a record, you'll be able to see things like the quality of the insulation  and examine things that you can't usually see when the fit-out is complete.  I'd look for any sort of bodging - by which I mean using makeshift fittings, twisted together electrical wiring, copious use of insulation tape, sagging plumbing etc. etc.

If the boat has a current BSS Certificate, the safety issues should be OK.  However, I'd familiarise myself with the BSS checklist, because as we all know, a BSS certificate only shows the state of the boat on the day it was examined.

 

Edited by koukouvagia
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It is really an impossible question as every bodies skill levels are different - you could get someone who has excellent 'woodworking' skills, but is 'dangerous' with electricity and gas, or vice-versa.

I would suggest that you spend a lot of time looking at things 'you cannot easily see', such as electricity cabling (220v and 12v) and gas piping.

These are the two potential killers and you should check they are in compliance with the relevant specifications (either RCD or BSS). If you feel unable to do so your self then 'ask a friend' or employ a surveyor.

 

Badly fitting doors, poor joints on cupboards, etc. etc. are easily seen, but not so easily rectified - example : would you be happy, long term, with the 'bathroom tiles' being 'on the squint' ?

Only you can decide what is acceptable to you and your own DIY levels to correct any faults.

Edit to correct missing 'letters'

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I wouldn't imagine that there is anything specific, and have seen good and bad done by both professional and diy. There may be a tendency to over engineer by some amateurs, possibly reducing space in cabinets and the like. I'd certainly look for access to the bilge, quality of visible joinery and any annoying vibration with the engine running. 

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4 hours ago, BWM said:

I wouldn't imagine that there is anything specific, and have seen good and bad done by both professional and diy. There may be a tendency to over engineer by some amateurs, possibly reducing space in cabinets and the like. I'd certainly look for access to the bilge, quality of visible joinery and any annoying vibration with the engine running. 

Easy access to equipment for checking, service or replacement. Pumps,  calorifier, electrical equipment, boiler, engine for example.

Things do go wrong and you don't want to have to destroy your bed to replace the immersion. 

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Documentation.   ours was built by a bloke called Dave in 2000.  i love Dave,  he documented where every cable, pipe and join are located in the boat and put it all in a big book which is known as "the book of Dave" in our boat.

Over the years as i have added bits and changed things, the documentation has been invaluable.  If you don't have this and you need to find anything you can end up cutting holes all over the place just to find a pipe for instance.

Oh .  and make sure you update the information as you go as well !

You should be able to tell the quality of the workmanship by having a good long inspection before you buy

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50 minutes ago, man1nvan said:

Documentation.   ours was built by a bloke called Dave in 2000.  i love Dave,  he documented where every cable, pipe and join are located in the boat and put it all in a big book which is known as "the book of Dave" in our boat.

Over the years as i have added bits and changed things, the documentation has been invaluable.  If you don't have this and you need to find anything you can end up cutting holes all over the place just to find a pipe for instance.

Oh .  and make sure you update the information as you go as well !

You should be able to tell the quality of the workmanship by having a good long inspection before you buy

I am the equivalent of "Dave" - not only have I detailed plans/notes of what I've done but also blogged about it since day 1 with photos...  

They are handy for ME too and the BSS man loved them!

 

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Our boat was supplied as engine, windows, pipework. bearers, vents and not much more. My dad was (still with us) a chippy teacher. After 25 years we keep noticing things that my dad didn't do/ I din't fix correctly. Snagging takes time and that can often apply to a professional fit.

Edited by BilgePump
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I have scanned the various replies and am not sure I agree with some of them..

22 years ago , following the death of my wife, I looked around for an interest in life. A long term coastal sailer I had never set foot on a a narrowboat. I was a lifelong 'pen pusher' with no technical qualifications beyond an 'O' level in woodwork. I was practical and was able to read. I was also able to afford to make mistakes (pride requires me to say I didn't make many). I also had no deadline or time constraint. Indeed the longer it took the better from my point of view.

I bought a 55' bare shell in primer and turned it into an excellent (though now dated) boat. Throughout, the very best of materials were used. Oak ply, no MDF whatsoever, African then Brazilian and English oak hardwoods. Overspeced  wiring, plumbing, fittings etc.  That's not to say I threw money at it. The engine (a BMC 1800) was a £100 scrapyard purchase that I stripped to the last nut and bolt and re-built.

At no time in the boats life has anything broken or fallen apart (apart from normal wear and tear). I doubt if the same could be said of many production boats of it's age.

Somewhere I'm sure I've got one or two photos of various stages of build but not a chronicled record. I did it as a labour of love not a record to prove what I had done.  

I may have lost track of the OPs point (it was a good bottle of wine) but my advice would be to look in depth and objectively at any boat. Paper and photos don't float.

 

Frank (hic)

Ref the statement " nothing has broken" etc. I forgot about the gearbox separating inexplicitly from the engine a couple of years ago

 

 

Edited by Slim
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  • Greenie 3
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I would want a good sprayfoam insulation. Almost anything else can be replaced if faulty but if the insulation is no good then it needs almost a complete rebuild to rectify. Ok, there are other insulation methods but I feel sprayfoam, well done, is the best.

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On 05/02/2018 at 22:40, system 4-50 said:

I would want a good sprayfoam insulation. Almost anything else can be replaced if faulty but if the insulation is no good then it needs almost a complete rebuild to rectify. Ok, there are other insulation methods but I feel sprayfoam, well done, is the best.

 

I'll raise you... '3M Thinsulate'.

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On 05/02/2018 at 17:07, Boaty Jo said:

Easy access to equipment for checking, service or replacement. Pumps,  calorifier, electrical equipment, boiler, engine for example.

Things do go wrong and you don't want to have to destroy your bed to replace the immersion. 

 

^^^This^^^

First time 'fitter-outers' have a horrible habit of putting stuff that fails regularly RIGHT in the BACK of cupboards or behind fixed panels.

Even emptying out a cupboard of junk to get at a gas test nipple behind the back panel is a right ball-ache, let alone changing a dead Bolin pump (running the central heating) installed behind panelling screwed and glued in place.

DIY fit-outs rarely give even the slightest consideration for future maintenance of life-limited technical stuff, so best avoided unless evidence suggests otherwise.

Actually professional fit-outs often don't either...

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Some diy fit outs might be right up there with the best of the professional builds, others will be absolute dogs with bodges aplenty.  I would suggest that the average potential buyer is ill equipped to judge build quality accurately because it will be outside of their skill-set and experience to do so. Unless you're absolutely certain that you have sufficient ability to assess the material state and build quality of any boat you look at, enlist the assistance of someone who has such ability.  

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Sensible location of services, pipes, cables, pumps, tanks etc, detailed documentation of the build and a high standard of finish can make for a very impressive one off boat. The quirkiness of some though mean that if there is a change of ownership the new owner can be stumped if they don't have the information in a logbook or the original owner isn't around to ask, even if the question is as simple as 'how do i access the shower pipes?' (panel screws are hidden behind the mirror so that has to be removed first) 'where is the main water pump' (yep, you'll have to remove the fridge to get to that).

I've seen some beautiful owner fitouts around, quality hardwoods throughout, lots of toys, gleaming engines. There are also some very vanilla but quite serviceable ones, built well to a budget, and then there are some that are little more than a lined shell with normal flat-pack furniture. The use of space here is far inferior to those with built in furniture but the cost a lot less. Free standing chairs are fine but if cupboards, beds etc are too then it may be that cost has been an issue on other parts of the build. Of course it may be that the owner just likes it like that and it offered a speedy way to make the interior comfortable. And then there are some fitouts/ 're-fits' that have basically hijacked a pallet wagon. It's the country cottage / cabin look, sometimes it's done well, at others with a bowsaw and three inch nails.

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On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:41, koukouvagia said:

On all the fit-outs I've done (five in all), I've kept a fairly detailed photographic record.  If the boat you are interested in has such a record, you'll be able to see things like the quality of the insulation  and examine things that you can't usually see when the fit-out is complete.  I'd look for any sort of bodging - by which I mean using makeshift fittings, twisted together electrical wiring, copious use of insulation tape, sagging plumbing etc. etc.

If the boat has a current BSS Certificate, the safety issues should be OK.  However, I'd familiarise myself with the BSS checklist, because as we all know, a BSS certificate only shows the state of the boat on the day it was examined.

 

From our manual of our DIY fit-out;fit31.jpg.3ab20dee752d2668fe1e303ff6482ca4.jpg

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

If the connections have been well made why would you need to remake any of them?

Hopefully, not for a long time, but all it takes is a bit of damp in the wrong place for long enough ...

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The picture Mayalld posted is exactly the type that should be included in any log of a self build nowadays. A thousand pictures would have been 30 rolls of film back when, but now is just a load of digital files with no cost of developing. Sadly ours was done back in the days of Kodachrome and I think we have only a few pics between shell and fully fitted.

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