Selling a home to live on a boat - does it really stack up?

[Richard10002]

No condoning it, but why not remortgage the house on the basis that it is your home, get the money you want for home improvements, or your hobby boat, or whatever the particular lender will see as a good reason for borrowing.

Then buy your hobby boat, move onto it, and let your house out. (Get the right insurances and checks done - nothing to do with the lender).

Lenders don’t visit their borrowers every couple of weeks to make sure they live there... in fact, as long as the loan payments are made, they don’t visit their borrowers ever.

Would you be in breach of contract? probably.

is your lender ever going to know? Probably not.

is everyone getting what they want out of the deal? Yes.

 

[dmr]

5 hours ago, thenortherner said:

Thanks.

An online mooring with parking and facilities would be an ideal compromise and there appears to be some, but not many.

I'm loathed to lose the house so I'm looking at the alternatives I've posted.

In terms of running costs, where have I gone wrong?  I thought £1K a year for general repairs might be about right on top of what I've budgeted for the blacking/batteries/fuel etc.  I was hoping around £6K or so including a £3K mooring would do it with the rest on maintenance and fuel/heating.

DIY skills are non existent unfortunately.

Slow reply because I have spent the day doing what you do when you live on a boat.

Maintenance is the big unknown and its hard to grasp this till you've actually lived on a boat. We live and work on a 70 footer, we like to keep stuff mostly working and the boat tidy but she is certainly not a "shiny boat". I have kept actual detailed figures of our boat costs for the last 5 years and its consistently £5000-£7000. We CC so no mooring costs but do travel more than 1000 miles every year so the boat has a hard life. Costs are licence, insurance, fuel including coal and wood, plus Maintenance and a bit of ongoing modification and improvement. I bank on at least one big "unexpected" bill every year (so not really unexpected). I do almost everything myself.

I had thought that my figures were at the top end but others here who also actually live aboard report similar costs. You could reduce the expense by minimising what you do, let the sides rust, fix leaking windows with gaffer tape or a tarp over the boat, and when the engine fails stick a cheap outboard on the back. A fair few to take this approach but its not for me.

If you lack DIY skills then add another couple of thousand to the costs, labour is not cheap. To live on a boat you need DIY skills, resourcefulness  and a determined spirit, OR  a lot of money.

.................Dave

Many marinas specify that you can only use their approved tradesmen. We have just had the boat in a marina for a couple of weeks whilst we had our annual holiday, it was a good place, but I think their people were charging over £80 per hour for labour (and were not short of work)

Edited February 4, 2018 by dmr
a bit more

[nb Innisfree]

As a 'calculated guess' I reckon the OP, if staying in a marina on shore power and no DIY skills, needs to budget roughly £10k - £12k pa depending on whether mooring is up north or down south. Would exclude food and social  life. 

[barmyfluid]

 

16 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

No condoning it, but why not remortgage the house on the basis that it is your home, get the money you want for home improvements, or your hobby boat, or whatever the particular lender will see as a good reason for borrowing.

It's doable, but it's adding debt and the uncertainty of renting to life. Agents can be criminally slack checking references, and bad renters very devious and destructive, nearly all my mates who've rented regretted it to some degree, one even had all her wiring ripped out. Yes, you can pursue damages (of the agents too), pay through the nose for insurance to cover non-payment. If this is something you're willing to risk/deal with, then fair enough, but it seems at odds with wanting to 'get away'.

1 hour ago, Irob said:

 Life is much less hassle now. Its one of my best decisions. Bricks n mortar, the great British con trick !

My dear old Dad once said something very similar in a video letter to me, they sold their house in Sheffield 1979 and moved to live in a caravan on the coast, where they lived the rest of their lives, renting (for 30+ years, model tenant, got to admit), living and laughing. "Best move we ever made son". 

I think the sentiment isn't so much that it's in any way a bad investment/security move to own bricks and mortar, just that we Brits are so incredibly normalised to thinking that that having B&M is the goal for any right minded person, to the degree that many are utterly blinded/dumbfounded by the concept that people may want something different out of life.

[Mad Harold]

5 hours ago, chubby said:

1) continue to live in it . Buy a boat . A small boat , a cheap boat . Not a doer upper but just a nice simple little boat . Get a mooring . Use the boat as much as poss . It could become your bolt hole away from the dreary estate . You ll look forwards to weekends & holiday time . Just BEING on a boat is enjoyable - the fire roaring , kettle on top or a nice stew , chillin out listening to music or with a book . Of course you could also go cruising at weekends or with holiday time & just enjoy the ups & downs of boat ownership .

This to me seems the best advice.Don't sell your house. Owning your own property gives one a sense of worth and a feeling of stability.You appear to have sufficient means to both buy your house and own a boat.Perhaps not a 50k plus steel narrowboat,but something cheaper.

A cheaper steel narrowboat [say 10-20k] will either be at worst,a rusty pile of junk,at best will need work,and you have said your DIY skill is lacking,so will cost you a lot of money to have stuff done.

Consider a fibreglass cruiser.  They can be bought for the price of a used car,and a bigger one [27-30ft] will be big enough to be comfortable.

You then have the best of both worlds,house during the week,boat at weekends,and to have a change,boat during the week and house at weekends.

 

[nb Innisfree]

21 minutes ago, barmyfluid said:

 

It's doable, but it's adding debt and the uncertainty of renting to life. Agents can be criminally slack checking references, and bad renters very devious and destructive, nearly all my mates who've rented regretted it to some degree, one even had all her wiring ripped out. Yes, you can pursue damages (of the agents too), pay through the nose for insurance to cover non-payment. If this is something you're willing to risk/deal with, then fair enough, but it seems at odds with wanting to 'get away'.

My dear old Dad once said something very similar in a video letter to me, they sold their house in Sheffield 1979 and moved to live in a caravan on the coast, where they lived the rest of their lives, renting (for 30+ years, model tenant, got to admit), living and laughing. "Best move we ever made son". 

I think the sentiment isn't so much that it's in any way a bad investment/security move to own bricks and mortar, just that we Brits are so incredibly normalised to thinking that that having B&M is the goal for any right minded person, to the degree that many are utterly blinded/dumbfounded by the concept that people may want something different out of life.

I'm guessing they were able to do that because they used the profit from their house sale? If so then home ownership worked for them. 

Starting off with the first property boom the market has expanded considerably over the last 45 years, some have lost out but the majority have done ok. I think the novelty value is starting to fade so I expect the focus to move onto something else in the future. 

[barmyfluid]

2 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

I'm guessing they were able to do that because they used the profit from their house sale? If so then home ownership worked for them. 

No, they sold to my cousin for a pittance, they already owned the van, think they'd used their house profit in a couple of years. However, your point works for me, I used the profit from my first house to buy this flat outright  (I'd have bought a boat then but was concerned in case he got ill and I'd have to leave it a long time, which was prescient), and should clear some profit on this sale. Property buying/selling/ownership is probably the most consistent way to earn money and to secure your future, no doubt about it, though the op may not reap the same pre-boom windfall with his new build. It's not, however, the magic key to everyone's happiness. If you've family you want to leave an inheritance to, it's a no brainer. My dad left exactly enough for his funeral and a round at the pub, really proud of that..

[ronnietucker]

7 hours ago, chubby said:

1) continue to live in it . Buy a boat . A small boat , a cheap boat . Not a doer upper but just a nice simple little boat . Get a mooring . Use the boat as much as poss . It could become your bolt hole away from the dreary estate . You ll look forwards to weekends & holiday time . Just BEING on a boat is enjoyable - the fire roaring , kettle on top or a nice stew , chillin out listening to music or with a book . Of course you could also go cruising at weekends or with holiday time & just enjoy the ups & downs of boat ownership. 

17

I've not got much experience with boats yet, but I'd go with what chubby says. I work full-time, have a house, and the boat is my weekend/holiday getaway. The boat is a 22ft GRP cruiser and cost me about £3k but I've since added some bits and bobs, but nothing majorly expensive.

I cycle there on a Saturday morning and come home on a Sunday night (for work on Monday) and it's great. I've not moved it around much due to the cold weather recently, but getting away from it all, being off the grid (for the challenge), still having water, gas and (12v) electricity is great fun. I'm looking forward to a week off near Easter and most of it will be spent on the boat just tinkering with small DIY things. Definitely, money well spent.

[nb Innisfree]

16 minutes ago, barmyfluid said:

No, they sold to my cousin for a pittance, they already owned the van, think they'd used their house profit in a couple of years. However, your point works for me, I used the profit from my first house to buy this flat outright  (I'd have bought a boat then but was concerned in case he got ill and I'd have to leave it a long time, which was prescient), and should clear some profit on this sale. Property buying/selling/ownership is probably the most consistent way to earn money and to secure your future, no doubt about it, though the op may not reap the same pre-boom windfall with his new build. It's not, however, the magic key to everyone's happiness. If you've family you want to leave an inheritance to, it's a no brainer. My dad left exactly enough for his funeral and a round at the pub, really proud of that..

My brother died suddenly last September, the day before he bought himself and his local pub landlord a pint who stuck it on my bro's slate, landlord had to pay it and proudly claimed to have bought my bro his last pint, lol! 

[sueb]

We let rooms rather than the whole house, which worked very well. You don't mention a social life. As you like canals look at waterway recovery group this could give you a new focus.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 hours ago, thenortherner said:

The reason I didn't allow for inflation is that I'd hope my salary will go up in line with inflation to, compensating for the difference.

Some of the marinas I've looked at include broadband in the cost.  But at worst, I'll do what I did before I had broadband at home - tether my mobile to my laptop.  I'm not a heavy user anyhow.  Either way, it's not exactly a massive cost.

Home repair was a duplicate from where I was comparing a bricks and mortar home to a boat in terms of running cost.  See the posts above for the full table.  I'd estimated up to £600+ a year for stuff getting broken or needing replacing.

Batteries are around £120 each every 3-4 years and blacking is around £750 every 3 years, all from what I've read.  If they're 10-15% or so low it's not major.

You have a salary that raises with inflation? 

[thenortherner]

Yes, roughly, at 2-3% per year it rises.

 

Is that odd?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, thenortherner said:

Yes, roughly, at 2-3% per year it rises.

 

Is that odd?

It should be the the norm. ?

My wages were froze for years then had 1% pays rises. 

I sold the house and quit the job. 

Bollocks to it. 

[Phil Ambrose]

Thinking about it, owning B&M is a very English thing, on  the Continent renting is the norm  

Phil 

[happyboris]

On 2/3/2018 at 22:41, thenortherner said:

Hi,

I'm currently considering selling my home and using the equity to buy a narrowboat outright to live on full time.  I rented and stayed on a boat for a week to try it out in November and really enjoyed it, so there's no worries there.  I know this is only a small snapshot of time and there's the novelty factor but deliberately chose the coldest, bleakest time to try it out.

I'm in my early 30s, in decent employment, no debts other than a mortgage and I don't have any children.  There's a good few reasons for wanting to make a change.  I live on a new build estate - whilst it serves its purpose in terms of being safe, secure and low maintenance, it's generally quite a dull, soulless place.  This is why boating appeals.  There appears to be a really decent sense of community.  My home's very small and minimalist - I'm not one for clutter - so I can't see there being too much of a problem with transitioning in terms of space.  

I'd like to permanently moor in Cheshire and already live very close to:

Midway Boats/Barbridge,

Audlem Overwater Marina

Swanley Bridge

Nantwich Venetian Marina

I know some don't offer residential moorings but I've read a fair bit about blind eyes turned etc..

Lastly, and I understand completely why it shouldn't be the prime reason for wanting a change, is it'd allow me to become and live 100% debt and mortgage free.  If I were to sell my property, once all the fees and charges are paid, I'd be left with around £50-55K to buy a boat outright.  By the looks of it, I could get something around 55ft in decent condition that'd be suitable to live aboard on.

I've been trying to weigh up the pro's and cons financially of doing this and have looked both short terms and long-term/10 years from now.  The running cost of the boat appear to be realistic from the research done.

In summary, it appears not to make financial sense to do this based on the below figures.

I'd calculated over 10 years because if I made overpayments in line with the amount shown during this time I'd own my home 10 years from now.

The below suggests that whilst I'd potentially save £58K over 10 years through living on a boat, it'd only be worth perhaps 38K in 10 years time, so I'd only have liquid/fixed assets worth £96K in 10 years assuming zero growth or return on the money I saved through doing this.

Whereas with the house, if it were to be worth £150K in 10 years - it's currently valued around £140K - then I'd have assets worth £55K more than going down the boat route.  And after 10 years, I'd own the house and then have an extra £750 a month as there'd be no mortgage/overpayment calculator.

What comes to mind re. the point above is that whilst I'd own the house I'd be asset rich and cash poor.  So what's the point?  I could maybe understand if the house could be sold to later downsize and then use what's leftover but it's not really possible to get a house too much smaller!  On the other hand, with the £750 a month saved, it'd take almost 6 years to save the £55K I'd have done by living on the boat - then I'd have the best of both worlds.

Apologies for the level of detail.  I've just tried to work things out in honest and realistic terms.  I'd be really keen on your thoughts and feedback on anything on the above, and what you'd do in my shoes and why...

Thanks,

 

 

Can't digest that lot however the general idea is fine. I for one wouldn't think twice about making such a transition the quality of life on a boat far exceeds that of living in anything other than a castle. When you look back on life you will find that money this and money that aren't so important however obviously it can be important. I will let you into a secret if you buy the correct boat it will sell for considerable more than it cost. You can get a fine boat for 50k currently there are some real bargains to be had look on apolloduck.com Do research and don't be put off by knowalls and pessimists and don't get too hung up on surveys etc. Make friends with someone who has built or fitted out their own boat don't believe what brokers tell you at marinas. It is more than possible that a boat that is advertised for 100k will sell for 50k set your sight and expectations high. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by happyboris

[JamesFrance]

In 1969 we sold our house for £10,000 and went to live on a boat bought in Malta which cost £4,000.   2 years later we brought her back to Falmouth and sold her for a similar amount, then bought a new Westerly Centaur and put down a 10% deposit on a new build house costing £9,000 just in time for it to double in value very quickly.   Fortunately we have always been in the housing market when the big increases have occurred so we now have a small villa in France.

However the original house we sold is now worth over 1.5 million and the old boat being wooden has probably rotted away as it would now be nearly 100 years old.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, happyboris said:

Can't digest that lot however the general idea is fine. I for one wouldn't think twice about making such a transition the quality of life on a boat far exceeds that of living in anything other than a castle. When you look back on life you will find that money this and money that aren't so important however obviously it can be important. I will let you into a secret if you buy the correct boat it will sell for considerable more than it cost. You can get a fine boat for 50k currently there are some real bargains to be had look on apolloduck.com Do research and don't be put off by knowalls and pessimists and don't get too hung up on surveys etc. Make friends with someone who has built or fitted out their own boat don't believe what brokers tell you at marinas. It is more than possible that a boat that is advertised for 100k will sell for 50k set your sight and expectations high. 

This is seriously bad advice. I would strongly suggest the OP ignores it.

[Dave_P]

Having read through this, I'm so glad I wasn't a member of this forum before I bought my floating home.  I would have never done it.  So much negativity, and 90% of it revolving around money.  You don't buy a boat for financial reasons, and the world would be a better place if nobody bought a house for financial reasons either. 

Life is for living, and I do a hell of a lot more of it living on a boat, then I would if I was still in bricks and mortar.

To the OP, I say "go for it".  You seem to have given it all a lot of thought and you'll always be wondering if you don't take the plunge.  If you get a marina mooring and don't like it, you can move!  You'll eventually find something which suits you needs.  That's one of the biggest benefits of boat life.

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Having read through this, I'm so glad I wasn't a member of this forum before I bought my floating home.  I would have never done it.  So much negativity, and 90% of it revolving around money.  You don't buy a boat for financial reasons, and the world would be a better place if nobody bought a house for financial reasons either. 

Life is for living, and I do a hell of a lot more of it living on a boat, then I would if I was still in bricks and mortar.

To the OP, I say "go for it".  You seem to have given it all a lot of thought and you'll always be wondering if you don't take the plunge.  If you get a marina mooring and don't like it, you can move!  You'll eventually find something which suits you needs.  That's one of the biggest benefits of boat life.

One hundred percent agree. the problem is and its not their fault but the vast majority of people are conditioned into believing the only home you can have MUST be glued to the floor with cement. Theres nowt wrong with B and M if that's all you want but there are many many other ways to live than being in the standard rut. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Having read through this, I'm so glad I wasn't a member of this forum before I bought my floating home. 

I wonder what the response had been if the OP had posted a similar question on a 'House Owners' forum ?

Hi,

I'm currently considering selling my boat and using the equity as the deposit to buy a house.  I rented and stayed in a house for a week to try it out in November and really enjoyed it, so there's no worries there.  I know this is only a small snapshot of time and there's the novelty factor but deliberately chose the coldest, bleakest time to try it out.

I'm in my early 30s, in decent employment, no debts and I don't have any children.  There's a good few reasons for wanting to make a change.  I live in a new build marina - whilst it serves its purpose in terms of being safe, secure and low maintenance, it's generally quite a dull, soulless place.  This is why home ownership appeals.  There appears to be a really decent sense of community.  My home's very small and minimalist - I'm not one for clutter - so I can't see there being too much of a problem with transitioning in terms of space.  

[Mike Hurley]

16 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Having read through this, I'm so glad I wasn't a member of this forum before I bought my floating home.  I would have never done it.  So much negativity, and 90% of it revolving around money.  You don't buy a boat for financial reasons, and the world would be a better place if nobody bought a house for financial reasons either. 

Life is for living, and I do a hell of a lot more of it living on a boat, then I would if I was still in bricks and mortar.

To the OP, I say "go for it".  You seem to have given it all a lot of thought and you'll always be wondering if you don't take the plunge.  If you get a marina mooring and don't like it, you can move!  You'll eventually find something which suits you needs.  That's one of the biggest benefits of boat life.

I totally agree too, i sold my house in UK in 2007, walked away with 93k after paying off the mortgage, moved abroad and bought a flat for cash with plenty left over. If you look at all the tales of being cautious then you would never do anything in life. Everyone said i was mad to sell up and move but i took a chance and it worked, owning a house is not the be all and end all of life. I own 2 now and a small boat in 2 countries but if i was single i would sell the lot tomorrow and come back to UK and buy a narrowboat. You are here for a good time not a long time, live your life now, no point in worrying what may or may not happen in the future. One life, live it.

[dmr]

You have to imagine yourself as a very old man, sat in a chair in the nursing home, probably in a slightly damp chair at that, and maybe even dribbling a bit. You can either watch tele or chat to the old fart next to you. You talk about the old days and so can either talk about the things that you DID, or the things that you thought about doing but didn't do.  One life!

..............Dave

[chubby]

20 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

I totally agree too, i sold my house in UK in 2007, walked away with 93k after paying off the mortgage, moved abroad and bought a flat for cash with plenty left over. If you look at all the tales of being cautious then you would never do anything in life. Everyone said i was mad to sell up and move but i took a chance and it worked, owning a house is not the be all and end all of life. I own 2 now and a small boat in 2 countries but if i was single i would sell the lot tomorrow and come back to UK and buy a narrowboat. You are here for a good time not a long time, live your life now, no point in worrying what may or may not happen in the future. One life, live it.

So you sold a house & with the profit you bought a boat & another flat ? 

In what sense have you entered into the " owning a house ( or indeed flat )is not the be all & end all " mentality ??

You still own B&M ! 

Its an entirely different scenario from the OP as you still have a property asset . It is still , though less so , a safety net , a fallback option & almost certainly an investment in the sense that its value is likely to increase . 

Its hardly selling up &  throwing caution to the wind as far as i can see . 

You  appear to have then furthered this " gamble" by buying another property ! 

Fair play to you - happy days , youve done well  & made good judgements but i would suggest its not the same situation as the OP 

Yes you live once . Life is for living but theres nowt wrong with a bit of diligence or caution when considering ones options . 

For every one who wins at such a move - there ll ve those who got it wrong . MtB mentions a chap who made an error in his judgement speculating on property in Notting Hill , so not everyone who has a punt goes on to win . 

All this " one life " stuff  is tedious - yes it is true  , yes one ought to have a punt or two in life . Often though life is luck and aint always good luck & though we can never tell whats around the corner , spending some time thinking things thru before leaping is time well spent . 

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by chubby

[peterboat]

On 2/4/2018 at 00:27, Phil Ambrose said:

A sweeping statement Mike, all marinas are not the same; ours us a warm, cosy friendly place with 86 live aboard boats and no it's not just a parking lot and yes we all get out cruising. 

Phil 

Virtual greenie Flappy our marina is the same we stop and chat we have time for each other, thats what makes a community its  the time spent with each other

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Dave_P said:

Having read through this, I'm so glad I wasn't a member of this forum before I bought my floating home.  I would have never done it.  So much negativity, and 90% of it revolving around money.  You don't buy a boat for financial reasons, and the world would be a better place if nobody bought a house for financial reasons either. 

Life is for living, and I do a hell of a lot more of it living on a boat, then I would if I was still in bricks and mortar.

To the OP, I say "go for it".  You seem to have given it all a lot of thought and you'll always be wondering if you don't take the plunge.  If you get a marina mooring and don't like it, you can move!  You'll eventually find something which suits you needs.  That's one of the biggest benefits of boat life.

Virtual Greenie Dave same for me I bought a boat because I wanted one, the finances were very much a secondary thing. Now 13 years on I have no regrets bought a widebeam [northern waters designed for proper boats] and couldnt imagine a life in a house Perfik